Reply to: Browns policies.

[BoredBloke]

There are almost 3,000,000 people on Incapacity Benefit (long term sick).

We have 5,000,000 unemployed already. Just the figures are deceptive.

And there are only about 30m in the working population once you exclude pensioners and kids

[Epiphone]

Why then is the government not encouraging people to be more responsible, save money, avoid taking on credit, regulate the credit industry to stop this nonsense of 30+ % apr deals, etc.....

It basically boils down to this:

As a rule, most people are NOT skint.

Yep, that's right. They're not suffering. They may have slightly less disposable income than they're used to but shopping centre's are still packed. Shops are still selling cigs and booze. A lot of people have two cars etc etc etc.

The media is that busy telling people we're all doomed it's a self fulfilling prophecy. Things are worse than they've been for a long time but the average man on the street hasn't even tightend his belt let along discarded it because his trousers are falling down from weight-loss starvation (crap metaphor alert).

[Mich the Tester]

And probably exit taxes.

Clue to understanding Brown:

From the thread Cow Economics

This would probably strike Brown as being the best way to organise things. Everyone is provided for, no-one is poor, and it is organised by those best able to do so. What could be better?

Yes, but he gives you more milk than your two cows ever produced, and indeed more milk than you could possibly use, by borrowing milk from third world cows on futures contracts to make your kids pay back all the borrowed milk with interest.

[expat]

WHS.

Brown needs the boom back (even if it only lasts a few months) in order to secure the next election by the great unwashed / uneducated. That's all that matters.

Then once safely in power again, we'll be looking at a 90%+ tax take for all middle income earners for a very long time. All that debt and borrowing has to be paid back by those that didn't borrow and are still working. That's you and me.

Those thinking of escaping will find a worthless pound.

And probably exit taxes.

Clue to understanding Brown:

From the thread Cow Economics

COMMUNISM
You have 2 cows.
The State takes both and gives you some milk.

This would probably strike Brown as being the best way to organise things. Everyone is provided for, no-one is poor, and it is organised by those best able to do so. What could be better?

[Peoplesoft bloke]

He's probably after creating a mini boom and heading for the ballot box before he's found out.

I reckon that's it - it worked when his pal Thatcher tried it.

[NetwkSupport]

Yes, stronger than Somalia, Eritrea, East Timor, Venezuela, Uganda and a few other places which at least have nice weather.

[Mich the Tester]

But it's ok, because, comparatively, we are in a much stronger position than many other nations.

Yes, stronger than Somalia, Eritrea, East Timor, Venezuela, Uganda and a few other places which at least have nice weather.

[ratewhore]

Did Darling really say that? What are the numbers?

Well, he never mentioned the numbers. I also liked the part of the interview where he talked about people reining in their spending when things are tight and then continued to talk about HMG spending their way out of the recession.

But it's ok, because, comparatively, we are in a much stronger position than many other nations.

He said that as well...

[Mich the Tester]

Brown ignored: Borrowing + spending = debt

That is unbelievable but true. His stewardship of the economy has been appalling. He doesn't balance the books. Imagine running a business or a household like that.

I can think of plenty of businesses where this particular skill would have got you on the Board of Directors;

Enron
WorldCom
Parmalat
RBS
Lehman Brothers
Northern Rock
Fortis
Bear Sterns
HBOS
Bradford & Bingley

[Doggy Styles]

Alistair Darling was interviewed on R4 this morning. According to him, New Labour have reduced the debt burden since they took office in 1997. John Humphries did say that was an out and out lie but Captain Darling said it was true.

So it must be...

Did Darling really say that? What are the numbers?

[Doggy Styles]

Why then is the government not encouraging people to be more responsible, save money, avoid taking on credit, ....

They never have, right from the start in 1997 when one of the Chancellor's first acts was to hit private pension funds for 5 billion a year.

Brown's approach is: Borrowing + spending = growth

There is obviously no room for saving in that model.

Brown ignored: Borrowing + spending = debt

That is unbelievable but true. His stewardship of the economy has been appalling. He doesn't balance the books. Imagine running a business or a household like that.

Oh dear, that turned into a bit of a rant, didn't it.

[_V_]

There are almost 3,000,000 people on Incapacity Benefit (long term sick).

We have 5,000,000 unemployed already. Just the figures are deceptive.

[NetwkSupport]

Alistair Darling was interviewed on R4 this morning. According to him, New Labour have reduced the debt burden since they took office in 1997. John Humphries did say that was an out and out lie but Captain Darling said it was true.

So it must be...

massaging the figures..

[NetwkSupport]

Does any of this stuff actually have any impact on the great unwashed? They continue to not work, they continue to get the same amount of benefits - how is this going to change their voting habits, if they even bother?

Dont get me started on the "skills shortage" !!!

We should re-educate these people into a job not give them handouts forever. my mrs was on JSA for a few weeks while looking for a new job (why not we've paid thousands in taxes over the years).

I was astounded, its hard to get if you are a worker (cant get it if you leave your job voluntarily). But for the layabouts.... getting benefits is like a permie job interview once your in the system they make it so easy for you its hard to leave (if you have no ambition).

[_V_]

Does any of this stuff actually have any impact on the great unwashed? They continue to not work, they continue to get the same amount of benefits - how is this going to change their voting habits, if they even bother?

A lot of people here are fairly big earners, middle class and yet still are very left wing.

You'd be surprised how many people you might think as Tory voters are true Labour supporters. They just need to feel their house is going up again and they can borrow and spend and Gordon's vote is secured.

A mini boom (short lived) will win the vote.