Reply to: Cloud Cuckoo Land

[Bob Dalek]

I don't give a ***K how you define it - the reality of situation is that some people who inherit a house are forced to sell it in order to pay tax (and right now in time of falling prices they are well and truly shafted) - this means that in some cases they would have to leave house they wanted to stay in! The house that meant a lot for them because their loved one lived there!

Case in point - 2 sisters who live in the UK are old and they live in the same house, they tried to get concession that if one of them dies the other will inherit the house tax free - it's an old house but it was valued well above threshold (that is too low btw), so one of them will die and the other will have to sell house to pay the tax bill, how is that ****ing right?



Some taxes are necessary, however it is wrong to tax everything at ridiculous rates - tax on income should not be high to encourage those who are on benefits to work, if anything benefits should be taxed rather than honest income from work - plumber or not.

Indeed! Why are there bad people in the world and why does injustice exist? I could arrange for two American gents to visit and explain it all to you. They even have a nice magazine, the Watchtower, I think it's called. PM me if interested.

[TheFaQQer]

I don't give a ***K how you define it - the reality of situation is that some people who inherit a house are forced to sell it in order to pay tax (and right now in time of falling prices they are well and truly shafted) - this means that in some cases they would have to leave house they wanted to stay in! The house that meant a lot for them because their loved one lived there!

Case in point - 2 sisters who live in the UK are old and they live in the same house, they tried to get concession that if one of them dies the other will inherit the house tax free - it's an old house but it was valued well above threshold (that is too low btw), so one of them will die and the other will have to sell house to pay the tax bill, how is that ****ing right?

So, some old dear wants to get a house that they like, and not pay any tax on it. Come to that, so would I - I'd quite like the one that I grew up in, and not pay any tax to get it. I'd also like to get everything for free, and still earn loads of money without paying any tax on that.

However, that's the rules - no party has said that they would change them to help your two old dears out.

[AtW]

You can't tax the dead. You are taxing the beneficiaries of the estate, not those who have died.

I don't give a ***K how you define it - the reality of situation is that some people who inherit a house are forced to sell it in order to pay tax (and right now in time of falling prices they are well and truly shafted) - this means that in some cases they would have to leave house they wanted to stay in! The house that meant a lot for them because their loved one lived there!

Case in point - 2 sisters who live in the UK are old and they live in the same house, they tried to get concession that if one of them dies the other will inherit the house tax free - it's an old house but it was valued well above threshold (that is too low btw), so one of them will die and the other will have to sell house to pay the tax bill, how is that ****ing right?

As someone else above has implied, you could take this idea one logical step further (since inheritance tax is a tax on the redistribution of money)

Some taxes are necessary, however it is wrong to tax everything at ridiculous rates - tax on income should not be high to encourage those who are on benefits to work, if anything benefits should be taxed rather than honest income from work - plumber or not.

[BrilloPad]

http://forums.contractoruk.com/gener...ighlight=moral

HTH

[DimPrawn]

You can't tax the dead. You are taxing the beneficiaries of the estate, not those who have died.



Again, it's not a tax on the dead. As someone else above has implied, you could take this idea one logical step further (since inheritance tax is a tax on the redistribution of money) and say that if I pay my plumber from money that I've already paid tax on, then he shouldn't be taxed on it again. The downside of this is, of course, that that somewhat reduces the amount of tax revenue.

Gordon wants less tax. So I think he's hinting we should fiddle our tax returns a bit more.

[TheFaQQer]

Tax on the dead is completely wrong - super rich arrange their affairs so that they don't pay it or at least for them its small fish, but it really hits middle taxes.

You can't tax the dead. You are taxing the beneficiaries of the estate, not those who have died.

Taxation should be there to alter behaviors (like say I think diesel should be cheaper than petrol to make people drive diesel cars and save fuel and money), but how does tax on death change behavior, you think people will die less? No, its a cynical money grab - how would you feel if robber stole lots of stuff from your house when you or your relative died using that death as good excuse to enrich himself? If you don't like it you should not like that tax. And i f you like that tax feel free to opt into paying it, just don't impose your views on others.

Again, it's not a tax on the dead. As someone else above has implied, you could take this idea one logical step further (since inheritance tax is a tax on the redistribution of money) and say that if I pay my plumber from money that I've already paid tax on, then he shouldn't be taxed on it again. The downside of this is, of course, that that somewhat reduces the amount of tax revenue.

[AtW]

I said "should".

Change of (bad) behavior is one of a few things taxation might be good for - any tax should pursue a goal of changing behavior. For example rewarding with lower income tax for higher incomes, that's incentive to earn more rather than stay on benefits.

You are looking at tax like labour do - steal from some to give some to others who will in exchange vote for you - that amount of tax is never allowed to change the situation (from poor to middle classes), so it keeps going on and on and on - if you are poor and you get public support in form of tax then you must take reasonable steps to change - if you are disabled then fair play, can happen, but if you are healthy person who can work you should not be staying on benefits and avoiding work, that's complete bull.

If you are poor you should work twice as hard to stop being poor rather than rely on state handouts to continue poor existance.

[expat]

Taxation has got a number of purposes. One is changing behavior, another is fiscal and there are a few more.

I said "should".

[AtW]

Of course taxation hits the middle classes. The working and poor classes don't have enough money, and the wealthy classes are able to avoid it.

I think the right solution here is to provide conditions that would allow poor classes to greatly reduce in numbers rather than spoon feed them with small a mounts of money that would never change their behavior and will keep them poor forever. I'd accept tax that is designed for just that so long as good progress can be shown.

Taxation should not be there to change behaviour. It should be for necessary government funding. As for behaviour, if it is undeniably harmful, make it a crime; if not, let people decide for themselves.

Taxation has got a number of purposes. One is changing behavior, another is fiscal and there are a few more.

[expat]

Of course taxation hits the middle classes. The working and poor classes don't have enough money, and the wealthy classes are able to avoid it.

Taxation should not be there to change behaviour. It should be for necessary government funding. As for behaviour, if it is undeniably harmful, make it a crime; if not, let people decide for themselves.

[SayWhat]

No tax no job...

If people don't pay tax, then there is no need for a government, therefore there basically no infrastructure so that leads to no companies which then leads to no jobs. Its a bit of a vicious circle... Interest rates used in conjunction with inflation targeting create a method to get you to spend money or in some cases taxes are used as a tool to get you to spend... then they collect revenue... idle money is a waste of wealth...

The trick to getting wealth is to bear in mind that the money game lies in debt, money was created from debt...

Rather than working out how to dodge some tax, it better to study the debt methods of our money system, you'll make yourself more cash that way then playing dodge the tax man... use him to your advantage and play the game smartly.

On the topic of capital gains tax, well you can only pay that if you realize a gain from a sale of property... so one way to play the game is not to sell it... Mortgage it to the hill, then pay some back to keep repayments up for a while... then shift the cash to other investments off your books i.e. like in a trust... then go gracefully bankrupt and you most probably realize a much better return... so in today world a person say at 30 slaves away till they 50 buying assets, paying the bank for them and then 20 years later mortgages those up nicely and prepares for retirement by borrowing against those and going broke... they then move on to retire in a nice warm place having made themselves decently rich.. in debt you make wealth...

[AtW]

Inheritance tax is paid by (depending on how you look at it) one of two types of people:

The practical problem I have is this - houses are the biggest assets these days (despite falling prices), and if you live in the same house you inherit suddenly you might need to pay a huge amount of money very few people have, so you will have to sell the house you live in even if you had no intention of leaving it. Just how is it right?

Tax on the dead is completely wrong - super rich arrange their affairs so that they don't pay it or at least for them its small fish, but it really hits middle taxes.

Taxation should be there to alter behaviors (like say I think diesel should be cheaper than petrol to make people drive diesel cars and save fuel and money), but how does tax on death change behavior, you think people will die less? No, its a cynical money grab - how would you feel if robber stole lots of stuff from your house when you or your relative died using that death as good excuse to enrich himself? If you don't like it you should not like that tax. And i f you like that tax feel free to opt into paying it, just don't impose your views on others.

Is it any less fair to tax them than taxing a working person - making them work half their life for someone else.

Working persons can start their own business or become self employed, if immigrant can do it with all the language problems, visas etc then surely a local working person can also do it?

[Bagpuss]

Anyone can use the same methods to avoid it as they do.

Change your name from German to English or Greek to English?

[PerlOfWisdom]

How come the Royal Family don't pay inheritance tax?

Let's face it, when the Queen and that racist bloke she live with croak it, shouldn't IHT be levied on every Royal asset?

Only "fair"

Anyone can use the same methods to avoid it as they do.

[DimPrawn]

Inheritance tax is paid by (depending on how you look at it) one of two types of people:

The dead who don't need it.

Their beneficiaries who have got free money for doing nothing.

Is it any less fair to tax them than taxing a working person - making them work half their life for someone else.

How come the Royal Family don't pay inheritance tax?

Let's face it, when the Queen and that racist bloke she live with croak it, shouldn't IHT be levied on every Royal asset?

Only "fair"