Reply to: Recruitment consultants

[Crusoe101]

Thanks All for sound advise

Thanks for this guys, just to point out its service management my arena with limited technical knowledge.

I always use the "understanding the business and processes" example as it has done me well so far.

As for a switch to telecoms, been there as a Service delivery manager of one of the UKs larges

[EternalOptimist]

I am glad for your sake that you made the "small agency" exception.

are you small dodgy?

[DodgyAgent]

The 'consultants' you get to speak to on the phone are going to be idiots, it's just how it is. Unless you're dealing with a small agency. These are going to be the very cheap blaggers who got sacked from selling double glazing and roof tiles to old ladies last week. First of all they are going to be dumb and incompetent, you'll pick that up within the first 30 seconds of conversation. They'll also have a chip on their shoulder about how much money you can make and be amazed you aren't jumping at these 200 a day roles.

It's just how it is. The senior people in the agency who know their businesses have more interesting and better things to do than be involved in the cv filter and harvest, so they hire some cheap idiots who can't get a better job.

Go direct to your clients or put up with idiots, it's just how it is.

I am glad for your sake that you made the "small agency" exception.

[Cheshire Cat]

I often wonder if PSLs exist in order to give internal recruitment people an easy life rather than serve the business.

Those two things are not mutually exclusive. The client could argue that having minimal points of contact does serve the business by making internal HR processes more prescriptive and easy to follow.

[shoes]

The 'consultants' you get to speak to on the phone are going to be idiots, it's just how it is. Unless you're dealing with a small agency. These are going to be the very cheap blaggers who got sacked from selling double glazing and roof tiles to old ladies last week. First of all they are going to be dumb and incompetent, you'll pick that up within the first 30 seconds of conversation. They'll also have a chip on their shoulder about how much money you can make and be amazed you aren't jumping at these 200 a day roles.

It's just how it is. The senior people in the agency who know their businesses have more interesting and better things to do than be involved in the cv filter and harvest, so they hire some cheap idiots who can't get a better job.

Go direct to your clients or put up with idiots, it's just how it is.

[DodgyAgent]

I always thought the PSL was created based on price

To an extent, but it has to perform. If it fails to perform then managers who's responsibilities are ultimately above the maintaing of the PSL will simply circumvent it. Many circumvent it anyway, but once it starts leaking then trouble.

I often wonder if PSLs exist in order to give internal recruitment people an easy life rather than serve the business.

[rootsnall]

It's time to skill up. Perhaps even do more (finance) qualifications during the downturn. That's what i'm doing. I'm 18 months into a major skilling up. When the market picks back up again, i'm going to be on top $$.

Sometimes it pays off but many times it doesn't. Live by your wits and wing it when something comes along

[Mich the Tester]

I always thought the PSL was created based on price

It was for a while, but here in the Netherlands it went seriously wrong. Among others, the tax office, one of the biggest clients for contractors, forced it’s consultancies and agencies into supplying on a 5 year contract at 2002 recession rates, with the first two weeks of work at zero rate (yes, free!), and found that consultancies were just sending people who were too inexperienced to work anywhere else or people they wanted to be rid of. Consultancies then refused to supply, stating ‘capacity shortages’, hoping to get out of loss making PSL agreements by breaching contract. Good freelancers simply refused the terms (particularly the 2 weeks for free) and worked somewhere else, so the poor quality of staffing damaged projects, resulting in some high profile ICT disasters. Some clients use a recession to push rates down, even to loss making levels, but inevitably pay the price when the market picks up. Some agencies use a recession to try and raise their margin at the cost of the contractor, but ultimately they're doing their client a greater disservice.

Moral of the story; don’t screw your suppliers; they’re just as important as your customers and you won’t have a business without them.

[EternalOptimist]

Very true. Nowdays even more so with agencies trying to streamline resourcing by using buzzword based computer systems. These are aided and abbetted by clients who employ people to act as interfaces between themselves and the agency suppliers. You do tend to find though that if an agency works with a client on a long term basis, and they have little direct contact with hiring managers that they learn to understand what their clients really want.. but it takes a lot of time, and presumes that the agency is smart enough to pick this up (if they dont they are off the PSL)

I always thought the PSL was created based on price

[DodgyAgent]

Yes, but often the client’s only IT knowledge is the buzzwords. Take a look at permie job adverts and you see a long list of tools or brand names, like MS SQL Server, Cool:gen, TMap instead of knowledge of relational databases, programming languages and test techniques. The fact that someone who’s tested on Oracle and can write SQL queries can easily adapt to any other relational DB using SQL, someone who can write Java code will do a better job with a 4gl than a tool monkey or someone with experience of Testframe can easily adapt to Tmap seems to be a blind spot for clients AND agents, never mind anyone understanding exploratory testing. Quite how knowledge of Prince2 is going to make me a better tester is a mystery to me, but put it on my list of stuff so that I don’t get missed out in the database search.

Who gets hired? Not necessarily the person with the right knowledge and experience, but the guy who puts the right buzzwords on his CV.

It’s unfair and I think it particularly disadvantages people who’ve gained many years of experience in a specialised subject, but on the other hand it’s all part of being a contractor and thinking like an entrepreneur to find out which buzzwords are ‘in’and use them on your CV. Sad, but that’s life.

Very true. Nowdays even more so with agencies trying to streamline resourcing by using buzzword based computer systems. These are aided and abbetted by clients who employ people to act as interfaces between themselves and the agency suppliers. You do tend to find though that if an agency works with a client on a long term basis, and they have little direct contact with hiring managers that they learn to understand what their clients really want.. but it takes a lot of time, and presumes that the agency is smart enough to pick this up (if they dont they are off the PSL)

[aussielong]

Also here is a tip: What many people IT chasing the investment banking contracts may not realise is that the business knowledge and technical skills are very specialised in different areas of finance so when you leave your last contract there may be no industry wide vancancies for say UNIX C++, FX derivatives developers with CORBA for many months to come, in other words the business knowledge you picked up at your last role is useless to other investment banks right now when you are looking for your next role, it makes it very difficult for you to obtain your next gig quickly.
!

It's time to skill up. Perhaps even do more (finance) qualifications during the downturn. That's what i'm doing. I'm 18 months into a major skilling up. When the market picks back up again, i'm going to be on top $$.

[Mich the Tester]

I've heard horror stories from people who've worked for some recruitment firms. The working conditions are often horrendous, which isn't conducive to good agent/contractor relations. The agent/client relations, otoh, are often handled by the more senior guys. Junior agents are just sales staff. Their only IT knowledge is the keywords. And they frequently spell them incorrectly.

Yes, but often the client’s only IT knowledge is the buzzwords. Take a look at permie job adverts and you see a long list of tools or brand names, like MS SQL Server, Cool:gen, TMap instead of knowledge of relational databases, programming languages and test techniques. The fact that someone who’s tested on Oracle and can write SQL queries can easily adapt to any other relational DB using SQL, someone who can write Java code will do a better job with a 4gl than a tool monkey or someone with experience of Testframe can easily adapt to Tmap seems to be a blind spot for clients AND agents, never mind anyone understanding exploratory testing. Quite how knowledge of Prince2 is going to make me a better tester is a mystery to me, but put it on my list of stuff so that I don’t get missed out in the database search.

Who gets hired? Not necessarily the person with the right knowledge and experience, but the guy who puts the right buzzwords on his CV.

It’s unfair and I think it particularly disadvantages people who’ve gained many years of experience in a specialised subject, but on the other hand it’s all part of being a contractor and thinking like an entrepreneur to find out which buzzwords are ‘in’and use them on your CV. Sad, but that’s life.

[DiscoStu]

Sounds like you need to be a permie to weather the storm....

Unless you have at LEAST 4 months permie money stashed to tide you through?

Think carefully.

He's right, get yourself some nice polyester ties and wee-stained shoes, you'll be fine.

[Spacecadet]

Their only IT knowledge is the keywords. And they frequently spell them incorrectly.

Or mis-use them

[Tensai]

Their only IT knowledge is the keywords. And they frequently spell them incorrectly.

Even the acronyms... I remember getting asked if I "know" TPCIP, Tivilo, and (ISYN) VD.....