Reply to: Tax freedom day

[Peoplesoft bloke]

You are a bit thick methinks.

Coming from you?

[Cyberman]

Fair enough - sadly I think it will be a cold day in Hell before CyberTory comes to this knowledge.

You are a bit thick methinks. I have acknowledged mistakes by the Tories. The fact is that their mistakes are pretty insignificant compared to the unbelievable number and costs incurred due to Labour mistakes on the economy, immigation, benefits system, gold reserves etc, which are now leading to an annual 100 billion deficit, which could well be the highest in the history of the UK.

[Cyberman]

So that was economic incompetence? Or is that genetically impossible if you are a Tory? Come on, I've accepted Labour incompetence where it exists - now it's your turn, unless of course you really are saying it's impossible for a Tory to make a balls up of the economy, ever.

Perhaps it was, but this was also Labour policy at the time, so we would have suffered come what may. Personally, I have always been anti-Euro and was against the ERM. Thankfully, this ploicy failed and remaining out of the Euro has allowed us to benefit enormously, although of course that advantage has been wasted by Labour's spendthrift policies.

The ERM debacle cost us 7 Billion, but to get things in perspective, over 100 Billion has been extorted from our pensions since 1997, another 7 Billion lost through sales of our Gold, and another 4 Billion given away in tax-credit errors since 2002, and rising, that we will never get back.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I think I have said that the Tories are not blameless. If I haven't then I should have. I do not think Maggie had any right selling off a number of nationalised industries (or council houses) and I think she should have done more to support UK industry when she was fighting the unions. I do think Major and Lamont made mistakes, but I do not believe they were at fault for the global downturn at the time. I have also said that Golden Clown is not responsible for the current global mess. Other stuff I lay firmly at his door.

Fair enough - sadly I think it will be a cold day in Hell before CyberTory comes to this knowledge.

[The Lone Gunman]

I don't have blind rage against the Tories - I want CyberTory and you since you've chimed in, to accept that Major and Lamont and pals ballsed it up. I'll concede it wasn't in the same league as the current balls-up, but it was hardly competent. You two seem to have such a blind rage against Labour that you think no Tory can make an error.


I accepted that this lot are crap, I didn't vote for them and I'm voting Tory next time.

I think I have said that the Tories are not blameless. If I haven't then I should have. I do not think Maggie had any right selling off a number of nationalised industries (or council houses) and I think she should have done more to support UK industry when she was fighting the unions. I do think Major and Lamont made mistakes, but I do not believe they were at fault for the global downturn at the time. I have also said that Golden Clown is not responsible for the current global mess. Other stuff I lay firmly at his door.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

You are assuming there were good times available for the Tories to be able to stash something away.

Hello? I lived through the late 80s, and to hear most of you talk it was a paradise awash with cash - where did it all go?

You [sic]blind rage against the Tories seems to make you incapable of accepting the possibility that anything might not have been their fault.
Any Government can make a mistake, but it takes real genius to court a disaster like the present one.

I don't have blind rage against the Tories - I want CyberTory and you since you've chimed in, to accept that Major and Lamont and pals ballsed it up. I'll concede it wasn't in the same league as the current balls-up, but it was hardly competent. You two seem to have such a blind rage against Labour that you think no Tory can make an error.

As has been said many times, NL inherited an economy that was regarded by all pundits both left and right as being in the best state, stable and growing, that any Government has ever inherited in the UK.

Governments run deficits when they need to.

I accepted that this lot are crap, I didn't vote for them and I'm voting Tory next time.

[The Lone Gunman]

Eh? According to your (valid) list of moans about the current lot we are supposed to stash something for bad times - why didn't this apply to Major - is it because he's a Tory and therefore immune?

You are assuming there were good times available for the Tories to be able to stash something away.
You blind rage against the Tories seems to make you incapable of accepting the possibility that anything might not have been their fault.
Any Government can make a mistake, but it takes real genius to court a disaster like the present one.

As has been said many times, NL inherited an economy that was regarded by all pundits both left and right as being in the best state, stable and growing, that any Government has ever inherited in the UK.

Governments run deficits when they need to.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I assume that was because of the ERM debacle,.....:

So that was economic incompetence? Or is that genetically impossible if you are a Tory? Come on, I've accepted Labour incompetence where it exists - now it's your turn, unless of course you really are saying it's impossible for a Tory to make a balls up of the economy, ever.

[Cyberman]

Eh? According to your (valid) list of moans about the current lot we are supposed to stash something for bad times - why didn't this apply to Major - is it because he's a Tory and therefore immune?

I think you mean "did". Why?

I assume that was because of the ERM debacle, but whatever the deficit then, the one in 2010 is going to make that look like peanuts. I read that the current Labour deficit is the highest since 1946. OOOPS!! ..... and lots more to come as the drip drip of further spending and waste adds to that this year and next as Labour try to bribe the electorate.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

There were tax rises under Major because we had a worldwide recession around 1990-1993. Therefore we had to pay for the unemployed etc.

Eh? According to your (valid) list of moans about the current lot we are supposed to stash something for bad times - why didn't this apply to Major - is it because he's a Tory and therefore immune?

Labour may well have inherited a deficit in 1997

I think you mean "did". Why?

[TimberWolf]

No return to boom and bust !!

Maintain mortgage lending and small-business lending at 2007 levels

[Cyberman]

I'll accept that the handing over of a big deficit to Cameron was due to economic mismanagement by Labour. Now I invite you once again to account for the tax rises imposed by John Major, and why Labour inherited a deficit in 1997.

There were tax rises under Major because we had a worldwide recession around 1990-1993. Therefore we had to pay for the unemployed etc.

Labour may well have inherited a deficit in 1997 but they also inherited a growing economy from the Tories(12 consecutive growth periods I believe) that paid it off.

Governments will always have a deficit at some stage but it would not normally grow during periods of economic growth because tax receipts are increasing. Unfortunately, Labour have increased spending in a spendthrift manner throughout their terms in the belief that they would never have a 'bust', so now we require massive tax rises at some stage.

No return to boom and bust !!

[Peoplesoft bloke]

If there are massive debts on handover to Cameron that have to be repaid, that is due to Labour. Tax freedom day will naturally extend. Will you then debate the reasons, or accept that it is due to economic mismanagement yet again by Labour ?

I'll accept that the handing over of a big deficit to Cameron was due to economic mismanagement by Labour. Now I invite you once again to account for the tax rises imposed by John Major, and why Labour inherited a deficit in 1997.

[Cyberman]

Tax freedom day has been latest under Tory rule. The reasons for that are debatable, but obviously if you are a Tory it makes sense to blame Labour or world conditions or anything else. It does seem that they have rolled it back some times, but if it wasn't their fault it got later, how can they claim the credit for when it gets earlier?

If there are massive debts on handover to Cameron that have to be repaid, that is due to Labour. Tax freedom day will naturally extend. Will you then debate the reasons, or accept that it is due to economic mismanagement yet again by Labour ?

[Cyberman]

Tax freedom day has been latest under Tory rule. The reasons for that are debatable, but obviously if you are a Tory it makes sense to blame Labour or world conditions or anything else. It does seem that they have rolled it back some times, but if it wasn't their fault it got later, how can they claim the credit for when it gets earlier?

I just had to laugh!! Today, an embittered Northerner rang Gaunty on Talksport to complain that he is out of work due to Thatcher. Gaunty laughed at him, saying 'so you still blame Thatcher because you are unemployed 17 years later'....................'Grow up!!'.