"Roads are paid for and maintained using funds raised from Council Tax and income tax. Vehicle Excise Duty does not pay for the roads. It goes into the central pot which pays for whatever... NHS, war, education.."
So your point above is wrong. Taxes on motoring do pay for roads and more besides. More money is put into the big govt pot by the motorist than is spent on the roads.
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Reply to: Why don't you own an electric bike?
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Previously on "Why don't you own an electric bike?"
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Yes, I do understand that. The problem is that the government has to fund more things than actually raise money, so the few things that do specifically rake in cash - VED, tobacco and alcohol duties etc - go towards things that never bring in any cash at all - education, the NHS etc.
The original Road Fund Licence did go directly towards the building and maintenance of roads, but that was abolished in about 1936, by Winston Churchill, because they needed the cash for other things.
It's just the way that central government funding has to work in a welfare state. Everyone benefits, but at the same time no one really gets everything they need.
I'm sure more goes to the roads because VED is paid than would if it wasn't.
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But it still comes back to the simple fact that more money is handed over by the motorist than is actually spent on the roads. The money goes into the big government pot but less comes out to be spent on the roads. I have no argument with cyclists using the roads for 'free' but my point is your assertion that the road fund pays for the NHS and the like while it's income tax which pays for the roads. I'd say the road fund pays for the roads and other things unrelated to motoring. You can't have one big pot of cash and sub divide it just to suit your argument.
That would be like me saying how only I pay our mortgage out of our joint account.
The simple fact is that motorists already give more to the treasury than is spent on our shambolic road network.
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Originally posted by TonyEnglish View PostRoad maintenance is not one of the big parts of the council tax, but the bulk of it will come from the central government coffers. This money comes from the same source that the road fund, duty on fuel and income tax etc build up. So road tax puts more into the pot where less is taken from. On that basis road tax does pay for road maintenance - and other things besides. Motorways etc are not the responsibility of the council in terms of maintenance and so have no effect on council tax.
i.e. Everyone pays for the roads, including the motorways, whether they "use" them or not. They're a national asset. Even if you're housebound, the roads get used by the people that come to feed or nurse you. Even if you walk everywhere, the roads are used by lorries that bring goods to the shops for you to buy. Even if you just hug trees all day, roads are used by the Forestry Commission employees who maintain the forests. So, it's not an issue that everyone should pay for the roads, and everyone does.
The thing is that some road users cause more damage to the roads than others. Because they damage that national asset, they are expected to pay more. Indirect road users, like the people that walk everywhere, still pay extra in the form of higher prices in the shops to cover higher transport costs etc. And, presumably, you bill your clients more to help cover your drive to and from work. Round and round it goes.
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Originally posted by dang65 View PostAs it happens, we already do this with the public roads. Roads are paid for and maintained using funds raised from Council Tax and income tax. Vehicle Excise Duty does not pay for the roads. It goes into the central pot which pays for whatever... NHS, war, education..
The vast majority of council money still comes from central government. There is a formula which central government uses to allocate what it thinks each council should need to spend and how much it needs to allocate. To make ends meet the council raises the rest via the council tax. Road maintenance is not one of the big parts of the council tax, but the bulk of it will come from the central government coffers. This money comes from the same source that the road fund, duty on fuel and income tax etc build up. So road tax puts more into the pot where less is taken from. On that basis road tax does pay for road maintenance - and other things besides. Motorways etc are not the responsibility of the council in terms of maintenance and so have no effect on council tax.Last edited by BoredBloke; 16 July 2008, 08:43.
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Originally posted by Moscow Mule View PostHow much is VED for a truck? Equivalent to how many tanks of diesel?
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Originally posted by TheBigYinJames View PostMy take on it is that a fuel based system of taxation is the fairest. Bikes and pedestrians don't damage the roads or the environment. Cars do a little, trucks do more, since they are heavier, dirtier and drive more miles. So eitehr you have some exomplex expensive mileage-based road billing system with number plate recognition, or you pamp 1p more on fuel.
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My take on it is that a fuel based system of taxation is the fairest. Bikes and pedestrians don't damage the roads or the environment. Cars do a little, trucks do more, since they are heavier, dirtier and drive more miles. So eitehr you have some exomplex expensive mileage-based road billing system with number plate recognition, or you pamp 1p more on fuel.
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Originally posted by oracleslave View PostDoes it have to be either/or though?What matters is the fact that you are using the road, and as such, a global tax on use seems more fairer than a tax based on height, weight, damage or colour of your paintwork.
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Originally posted by TimberWolf View PostAnyway, cyclists should pay less for roads, not more. They don't need roads. A mud track is fine.
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Anyway, cyclists should pay less for roads, not more. They don't need roads. A mud track is fine.
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Originally posted by Board Game Geek View PostEg. My local gym. Membership is £40 a month. That is for unlimited access. Whether you go once, or 30 times, it's the same price. In that sense, you are paying for "access" to the club, not "usage on a per visit basis".
Based on your analogy, one might see VED as an extra charge for an incredibly fat person who goes around breaking all the gym equipment which other members have paid for, even the ones that only go there for a latte on Thursday mornings.
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Originally posted by Churchill View Post3 words...
"Internal Combustion Engine"
(10 words).
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Originally posted by Board Game Geek View PostI'm not quite sure how the poll tax applies to my proposal. Unless of course, you suggest that my proposal would punish those who use multiple forms of self-transport (eg, Bob has 2 cars adn a bike and therefore pays 3 times to use the roads)
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