Reply to: Why is Tim Henman's face all over the papers again?!

[kevlong]

So Tim as a TV pundit. No chance. Watching the Mens final yesterday, there were long periods of silence when Tim should have been providing insightful comments on the game.

Compare this with McEnroe's commentary which goes on endlessly, (well perhaps there is a balance in the middle somewhere!!).

Kevlong

[Moscow Mule]

?!?!

Never fail eh dodgy ...

Agree with most of it though, we used to play street tennis - i.e. court painted in a spare bit of cement, few milk crates for nets, dodgy old metal racket and away ye go. No illusions about skill or anything but no one I knew had even a seconds coaching anywhere, not even school. There is no grassroots tennis in this country, it's an extremely middle class sport.

I'd like to play now in my area, but most of the courts fall under the local asoc which is incredibly snooty and exclusive. Half their courts are empty most of the time as far as I can see ... what chance have you got of discovering talent if you make it so bloody hard to play?

There is coaching in schools, and clubs for young talent now. I fully intend to utilise these facilities to "hot-house" my kids and turn them into money-making machines...

[TimberWolf]

I like the fact that the Williams family has done better at producing tennis stars than the whole of the UK.

Yep, the Federer family too

[BoredBloke]

I like the fact that the Williams family has done better at producing tennis stars than the whole of the UK.

[DodgyAgent]

?!?!

Never fail eh dodgy ...

Agree with most of it though, we used to play street tennis - i.e. court painted in a spare bit of cement, few milk crates for nets, dodgy old metal racket and away ye go. No illusions about skill or anything but no one I knew had even a seconds coaching anywhere, not even school. There is no grassroots tennis in this country, it's an extremely middle class sport.

I'd like to play now in my area, but most of the courts fall under the local asoc which is incredibly snooty and exclusive. Half their courts are empty most of the time as far as I can see ... what chance have you got of discovering talent if you make it so bloody hard to play?

whereas go to France and every village has two top quality tennis courts.

[snaw]

Given that so few of the lower classes even know who their parents are then this is a non starter.

?!?!

Never fail eh dodgy ...

Agree with most of it though, we used to play street tennis - i.e. court painted in a spare bit of cement, few milk crates for nets, dodgy old metal racket and away ye go. No illusions about skill or anything but no one I knew had even a seconds coaching anywhere, not even school. There is no grassroots tennis in this country, it's an extremely middle class sport.

I'd like to play now in my area, but most of the courts fall under the local asoc which is incredibly snooty and exclusive. Half their courts are empty most of the time as far as I can see ... what chance have you got of discovering talent if you make it so bloody hard to play?

[DodgyAgent]

Tennis is a middle class game in the UK. Usually most kids who play can alternatively go and get jobs that will give them the high earnings that they need to live in the UK. In Spain and eastern Europe there is nothing really to lose by giving your life up from an early age to play the game. If things dont work out then players can easily get a job that is low paid as the cost of living is so low. Whereas in the UK a career for a failed tennis player is being a coach.

As for the game being played by poorer members of society then this is a no no simply beacuse players who travel the world need parental support, both emotionally and financially. Given that so few of the lower classes even know who their parents are then this is a non starter.

Henman was far and away better than the UK deserved, and we should try and judge him more by comparing his achievements with other British players over the last 40 years.

[PRC1964]

If a PM constantly failed to put a project to bed either on time or to budget, or a programmers' apps always corrupted data, would they be hailed as shining examples of their crafts, have things named after them, or have their actions (or lack of) defended by people who don't even know them personally?

For some inexplicable reason the letters EDS came into my mind when I read that.

[wobbegong]

Oh right. I was under the impression you were British. My mistake.

Has acceptance of failure finally become synonymous with being British?

Daft question., really.

[dang65]

Repeatedly trying for the number one slot and repeatedly falling short is not what I'd call heroic.

Oh right. I was under the impression you were British. My mistake.

[wobbegong]

I could understand your ire if Henman had always been knocked out in the 2nd round or something, but he regularly reached the last eight, and got to the last four on four different occasions. This is verging on miraculous when you consider the class of the opposition. Just to get to the standard where you get to play at Wimbledon is a major achievement. To get to the last four of those is magnificent.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one dang65. I agree it was a major achievement, and as I've said, he should be justifiably proud at a personal level, I just don't consider it worthy of all the adulation. Repeatedly trying for the number one slot and repeatedly falling short is not what I'd call heroic.

The Project Manager analogy doesn't work at all. We'd be talking about the four finest Project Managers in the world, not just one half-capable Project Manager and a load of incompetent idiots. You're probably thinking of the British Government.

You're probably right!

[Moscow Mule]

Yes, of course he should be proud of his achievements at a personal level, but it doesn't equate to a national pride and doesn't entitle him to be lauded as a sporting hero (not in my book, anyway).

Apart from WW2, who ever remembers the runner-ups?

It does in mine - I'm proud of any Brit who represents their country on the world stage.

[dang65]

<rant>Oh how I hate this "yes he's a failiure, but he's OUR failure" attitude. We saw this misplaced loyalty with Eddie "The Eagle" (FFS!) Edwards. The simple fact is that while these guys had the highly laudable notion of 'having a go', they simply weren't good enough to win, so we should applaud their plucky effort and move on, not continue to revere them as some latter-day saints. The other inescapable truth is that somewhat quirkily, despite not actually becoming the best in their field, they have become fairy rich.

If a PM constantly failed to put a project to bed either on time or to budget, or a programmers' apps always corrupted data, would they be hailed as shining examples of their crafts, have things named after them, or have their actions (or lack of) defended by people who don't even know them personally?

I suspect not.</rant>

I could understand your ire if Henman had always been knocked out in the 2nd round or something, but he regularly reached the last eight, and got to the last four on four different occasions. This is verging on miraculous when you consider the class of the opposition. Just to get to the standard where you get to play at Wimbledon is a major achievement. To get to the last four of those is magnificent.

The Project Manager analogy doesn't work at all. We'd be talking about the four finest Project Managers in the world, not just one half-capable Project Manager and a load of incompetent idiots. You're probably thinking of the British Government.

[wobbegong]

I think you're being a bit harsh. Tim wasn't good enough to become number one because others were better than him.

That's generally the way it works.

At times there were only 3 players in the world who were better than him. Isn't that something to be proud of?

Yes, of course he should be proud of his achievements at a personal level, but it doesn't equate to a national pride and doesn't entitle him to be lauded as a sporting hero (not in my book, anyway).

Apart from WW2, who ever remembers the runner-ups?

[Bagpuss]

Yeah, he reached eight Wimbledon quarter-finals, and went through to four semi-finals. Greg Rusedski reached one semi-final. I don't know why they keep trying to rename Henman Hill to "Murray Mount" or whatever. It should always be Henman Hill after that whole era when he was the great British hope at Wimbledon.

Rusedski made the US open final didn't he?

Re Henman, he was unlucky to be around at the peak of the second best grass player of all time. If only he were born a bit earlier