Reply to: Road Tax future – crushing High Emissions car prices.

[TimberWolf]

What about more cycle paths? I'm sure this would be popular with the panel here

Anyone used or seen an electric bicycle being used for real? Does it seem like a good and efficient mode of transport?

[VectraMan]

I think PB's answer applies to this question as much any. If you abolish VED and put all the tax onto fuel instead, then there would be no particular incentive for people to restrict their vehicle ownership to one car. You could go out and buy a 4x4 for any slightly rainy days, a sports car for spins in the countryside at the weekend, a saloon for business trips, a people carrier for family days out etc etc. There would suddenly be rows of semi-abandoned vehicles parked down every street, waiting for their turn to be used.

Isn't it better (from an ecomentalist point of view) that rather than just having a sports car, somebody buys a sports car for occasional use and a cheaper more efficient car for their day to day transport (i.e. like what I've done). Isn't that being green? Yet because I'm green I have to pay double car tax (on the same date as well).

And if all the cars are in the hands of the rich multi-vehicle owners, it boosts prices and forces the poor onto the busses and trains. The rich can only use one car at a time, so overall you've reduced the number of cars that can be used, reducing traffic and saving us all from that terrible CO2 I've heard so much about.

Sounds like a plan.

[TimberWolf]

This stuff about CO2 and engine efficiency misses the real issue about where most losses occur. Most of the inefficiency occurs travelling from A back to A, which needn't cost anything.

I propose the following solutions to be investigated for getting from A to A more efficiently:

• Question whether going from A back to A is really necessary
• Try to minimise heating the environment in paths emanating away from and approaching A
• Store the energy used in moving away from A for getting back to A again

E.g.

Use a giant bungee cord
Use roads that run downhill

Can anyone think of any other viable ways of getting from A to A more efficiently?

[DiscoStu]

I think PB's answer applies to this question as much any. If you abolish VED and put all the tax onto fuel instead, then there would be no particular incentive for people to restrict their vehicle ownership to one car. You could go out and buy a 4x4 for any slightly rainy days, a sports car for spins in the countryside at the weekend, a saloon for business trips, a people carrier for family days out etc etc. There would suddenly be rows of semi-abandoned vehicles parked down every street, waiting for their turn to be used.

I don't think road tax is the main deterrent for multiple car ownership.

I'd have thought it would be dictated more by the cost of maintenance, insurance, MOTs etc.

[Bagpuss]

grrrr DVLA, I forgot to SORN my work car when it was sat on my drive. Got a £50 fine for a car sat on my land.

[dang65]

Here is my proposal for the fairest way to set road tax.

Add it to the price of fuel. This has many advantages over our current system is seems like a no brainer to me. Those who use the most fuel and therefore cause the most pollution / use the roads most pay more. Nobody can evade the tax. No expensive civil servants and IT systems in Swansea are needed to administrate it.

So why don't we do it...?

One of the best ways to cut emissions would be not to keep buying new cars, since the majority of the emmisions come at the point of manufacture.

I think PB's answer applies to this question as much any. If you abolish VED and put all the tax onto fuel instead, then there would be no particular incentive for people to restrict their vehicle ownership to one car. You could go out and buy a 4x4 for any slightly rainy days, a sports car for spins in the countryside at the weekend, a saloon for business trips, a people carrier for family days out etc etc. There would suddenly be rows of semi-abandoned vehicles parked down every street, waiting for their turn to be used.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Here is my proposal for the fairest way to set road tax.

Add it to the price of fuel. This has many advantages over our current system is seems like a no brainer to me. Those who use the most fuel and therefore cause the most pollution / use the roads most pay more. Nobody can evade the tax. No expensive civil servants and IT systems in Swansea are needed to administrate it.

So why don't we do it...?

Agreed the DVLA is a total mess - but we do need some system of keeping track who's got which vehicle, surely? Even if we moved all VED to fuel (which I agree is fairer), we'd have to have some admin.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

BMW efficient dynamics, what a load of tosh, their cars have always emmited high C02, so now they lower it a bit and call it efficient dynamics.

A new >200 CO2 car will put out less emmisions than a 7 year old car supposedly <200. Yet the seven year old car will be deemed better for the environment, but it's not just CO2 that causes pollution.

Petrol heads will always want fast cars as long as they are available. You won't push them into a diesel or town car for the sake of a 27p a day saving in road tax.

One of the best ways to cut emissions would be not to keep buying new cars, since the majority of the emmisions come at the point of manufacture. That would make the car manufacturers cry though so as usual, we won't be doing the thing that makes more sense. Selling more and more new "efficient" new cars and trying to force people to junk their old ones isn't good for the environment.

[Bagpuss]

So somebody looking for a >200bhp car will settle for an asthmatic petrol or a clunky diesel? I don't think so.

[Chantho]

Petrol heads will always want fast cars as long as they are available. You won't push them into a diesel or town car for the sake of a 27p a day saving in road tax.

Even wealthy petrolheads don't take kindly to being ripped off, and may start to look for ways of reducing their payments to the Treasury (especially when it is clear that the money will be wasted, and not used in any Green way)

[TimberWolf]

Here is my proposal for the fairest way to set road tax.

Add it to the price of fuel.

Amen.

[DimPrawn]

Here is my proposal for the fairest way to set road tax.

Add it to the price of fuel. This has many advantages over our current system is seems like a no brainer to me. Those who use the most fuel and therefore cause the most pollution / use the roads most pay more. Nobody can evade the tax. No expensive civil servants and IT systems in Swansea are needed to administrate it.

So why don't we do it...?

Because 20 small taxes are eaiser to hide than lumping them all toghether into one.

How to run a government rule 237

HTH

[DiscoStu]

Here is my proposal for the fairest way to set road tax.

Add it to the price of fuel. This has many advantages over our current system is seems like a no brainer to me. Those who use the most fuel and therefore cause the most pollution / use the roads most pay more. Nobody can evade the tax. No expensive civil servants and IT systems in Swansea are needed to administrate it.

So why don't we do it...?

[Bagpuss]

There will be steep drop among current high emissions ( 200 CO2 ) cars . The reason is not only 100 £ more road tax.

Newer models are much more efficient both in Emissions and Fuel Consumption. ( BMW Efficient Dynamics you heard of have you ? )

Newer models being more efficient still offer similar acceleration due to improvements in the Engine. This will make buying 200 CO2 engines ( acceleration ~ 6 - 7 secs ) inefficient due to the availability of the improved engines. For example current 320 D / 325 D is as fast as 3 years old 325i. Yet the newer one offers much better mileage and CO2.

Newer models will become more and more efficient with hybrids.

BMW efficient dynamics, what a load of tosh, their cars have always emmited high C02, so now they lower it a bit and call it efficient dynamics.

A new >200 CO2 car will put out less emmisions than a 7 year old car supposedly <200. Yet the seven year old car will be deemed better for the environment, but it's not just CO2 that causes pollution.

Petrol heads will always want fast cars as long as they are available. You won't push them into a diesel or town car for the sake of a 27p a day saving in road tax.

[VectraMan]

Newer models will become more and more efficient with hybrids.

There's still potentially a long way to go, with internal combustion engines being 20-30% efficient at best.

There was something on Working Lunch the other day about capturing the exhaust heat and using it to heat water and driving a second steam engine (no, I'm not joking). A company have developed this system, and they were saying their first application is for refrigerated lorries which typically have a second engine in the trailer to drive the refrigeration, but would instead use the steam engine to drive the trailer. But they were saying they'd have a system that could be fitted to cars within a couple of years giving you a petrol-steam hybrid.

There's also pleanty of research going on into capturing the energy (i.e. heat) lost by the brakes. It's something the FIA are pushing to be included into formula one.