Reply to: Favourite accent?

[TimberWolf]

I think you're deliberately misconstruing what I said.

Eh. You said: "It's not geographical, it's societal/educational". To wit, I queried whether education might be a factor. For example not just where you go to school, which you've already said plays a role, but for how long and how advanced the schooling. Your stance on geography appears to be a moving target though.

Dylan Thomas was a Welshman, and so was Richard Burton, and while they retained some of the best characteristics of their native accent, they spoke what was essentially RP.

I doubt I would have guessed Richard Burton was Welsh from his accent; he had a proper posh sounding voice. Here's a quick citation based on a search on his schooling and accent though:
"In secondary school he came under the influence of teacher Phillip Burton, who helped the young man lose his Welsh accent and get into Oxford at age 16".
http://movies.uk.msn.com/actor.aspx?P_PersonID=19072

You seem to be stereotyping Northerners as 'eee bah gum!' types.

Eh? Not just Northerners, Southerners too.

There are plenty of 'Northerners' who speak with RP.

So...the question remains...which 'Northerners' are those that do, and which do not speak 'RP'? Incidentally I think I recall from my scant research earlier that only a small minority of the population, anywhere, actually speaks RP.

[bogeyman]

So we are being kind when we say people have an accent (e.g. northerners), they are really just uneducated?

I think you're deliberately misconstruing what I said.

There are plenty of 'Northerners' who speak with RP. You seem to be stereotyping Northerners as 'eee bah gum!' types.

Dylan Thomas was a Welshman, and so was Richard Burton, and while they retained some of the best characteristics of their native accent, they spoke what was essentially RP.

When I said it was societal/educational I mean that ones accent depends entirely on who you mix with in your formative years, where you go to school etc.

Accents can also change later in life if you move do a different region or mix with a different set of people.

[TimberWolf]

There's the clue!


No doubt your accent is more "standard" than your spelling.

English spelling is a hopeless mess of illogic, worse even than the grammar. I do nevertheless adhere to the standard when it matters. Standard is key here since this is essentially what the English language is about, a standard for verbal communication. Without a standard we would just be grunting at one other and getting annoyed. I wonder if animals have regional accents?

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Well call a standard accent an accent if you want,

There's the clue!

since there's no official standard, though even the article you cited refers to a standard. One can but try to speak proper like. Concidering it's not known whether the human voice is unique (and therefore with perhaps 6 billion variations of accent), an exact standard may noit be achievable. So much for natural languages. But one might quantify differences to the norm. I'll choose the word 'bath' as one such qantifyable metric.

No doubt your accent is more "standard" than your spelling.

[TimberWolf]

Yes you do - your accent is what you choose to call "standard", but it is still an accent.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northyorkshire/...e_rhodes.shtml

"Standard English is nothing more or less than a particular dialect from the South East Midlands".

Well call a standard accent an accent if you want, since there's no official standard, though even the article you cited refers to a standard. One can but try to speak proper like. Concidering it's not known whether the human voice is unique (and therefore with perhaps 6 billion variations of accent), an exact standard may noit be achievable. So much for natural languages. But one might quantify differences to the norm. I'll choose the word 'bath' as one such qantifyable metric.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I don't, and nor does anyone else who speaks standard English. I don't say bath for example, I say baaarth. Generally in line with the pronounciation given in dictionaries, I imagine.

Interestingly, when working in Bath I noticed that natives of the place use the form with the single a and no r, but that's probably a side issue.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I don't, and nor does anyone else who speaks standard English. I don't say bath for example, I say baaarth. Generally in line with the pronounciation given in dictionaries, I imagine.

Yes you do - your accent is what you choose to call "standard", but it is still an accent.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northyorkshire/...e_rhodes.shtml

"Standard English is nothing more or less than a particular dialect from the South East Midlands".

[TimberWolf]

Everyone has an accent

I don't, and nor does anyone else who speaks standard English. I don't say bath for example, I say baaarth. Generally in line with the pronounciation given in dictionaries, I imagine.

[Bagpuss]

Do you have a source for this argument? I have for mine.

The adoption of RP post ER I or it being a regular accent before?

Mine was remembered from Simon Schama's History of Britain, I could search Wikipedia but I don't trust it especially with it's Enya is an alien entries and Ronnie hasslehurst writing S CLub 7 hits.

Most people who speak RP, do so because of schooling (and that can be anywhere in the UK) or a desire to be something they are not e.g. Stockport born Joan Bakewell and Judith Charmers (whos gran was a cleaner).

[Peoplesoft bloke]

(4) People with accents (e.g. Northerners) are probably thick.

Everyone has an accent

HTH

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Not true, RP is an adapted Queens english, it didn't exist as a way of speaking before that. People in the south spoke in the local regional accents which were certainly not RP.

Do you have a source for this argument? I have for mine.

[Sysman]

Various bits out on the web about RP.

Wikepedia, this and this, just for starters.

[up4it]

What about Nerdic?

[Bagpuss]

No you are being ignorant. RP is based on a regional accent - it just happens to be a Southern one.

Not true, RP is an adapted Queens english, it didn't exist as a way of speaking before that. People in the south spoke in the local regional accents which were certainly not RP.

Bagpuss: You speak the Queens English not talk it!

It's called the Queen's English because she insisted the court spoke that way, it was a way of talking without colloquialisms and dialects

[snaw]

Ahh. Knew it was for fleety, didn't know the rest.