Reply to: Speculating on land

[ASB]

Wrong .. a councillor can "call it in" for committee if they feel like it ..... they are made aware of all applications going through delegated. Once its refused by delegated a councillor will not get involved. (in fact i'm not sure it can be reversed)

Once an application is submitted the parish counicl and ward members view will be sought. The case office will recommend refusal or grant.

If the parish or ward members (not any member) views differ from those of the officer - on valid planning grounds - then it will be called before the committee.

If the ward member has not expressed an opinion then the decision will rest with the officer, it will not go to committee and the only recourse is appeal to the inspectorate.

There are other circumstances in which a different member to the ward member can make representations to cause it to go to committee but it is not routine. Examples are that the applicants member cannot express opinion (e.g. they are on the planning committes or there is a conflict of interest) or that it has impact on adjoining ward(s).

[minsky1]

I have (another) daft idea.

I buy land that has no planning permission for residential property.

I apply agressively for planning permission (outline).

If agreed I sell at a profit (large).

If not I resell the land on at cost and try again.

e.g.

http://www.uklanddirectory.org.uk/la...le.asp?id=6796
http://www.uklanddirectory.org.uk/la...le.asp?id=6167


Genius or cretin?

Genius .... been there and done it.

i've just been granted planning on an infill plot - after 18 months in the planning system, 3 amendments to the application, and a fair few quid spent with the architect.

Taking the value of the land plus fees, plus build cost from a fairly conservative estimate of the market value, I reckon the planning permission for my particular development was worth about 60k.

[minsky1]

Yes, but the officers also have delegated powers don't they. The committee will usually pay any going though on delegated little if any attention. It is only where officers have refused that it will normally be heard by the committee.

Wrong .. a councillor can "call it in" for committee if they feel like it ..... they are made aware of all applications going through delegated. Once its refused by delegated a councillor will not get involved. (in fact i'm not sure it can be reversed)

[tim123]

Or in the case I'm most familiar with, a multinational with a record of obtaining government contracts manages to get permission for a development that was specifically ruled against at two previous inspectors inquiries, and was on land allocated as green belt and contrary to the currently defined local structure plan. .

I don't know why you are targetting me here.

I don't disagree with the theory that large companies can steamroller their way through the planning process.

Only with the idea that proposing a plan for council land makes a difference.

tim

[ASB]

Or in the case I'm most familiar with, a multinational with a record of obtaining government contracts manages to get permission for a development that was specifically ruled against at two previous inspectors inquiries, and was on land allocated as green belt and contrary to the currently defined local structure plan. No matter, wheel in a few consultants and away you go.

In this particular instance I am not sure whether you are saying it was ultimately granted by the inspectorate - in which case the local authority can't really be moaned at.

However you may well be saying the inspectorate still refused, it was then resubmitted and mysteriously passed by committee. If this was the case it should have been some time ago or somebody should be having a serious chat with the district auditor about maladministration (not that anything is likely to happen).

Certainly I am quite sure there may be some corruption. But elected representatives don't have a monopoly on that.

But yes, money does talk. Planning gain and 106's effectivelt force this.

[HairyArsedBloke]

Instead of buying land and making houses that people can’t buy because they can’t get the loans and the prices are falling, how about making food on the land? Prices of foodstuffs are going up and people will continuously buy food.

I know it’s a very speculative thing to do; AtW would certainly disapprove.

[Mailman_1]

How do you do this?

Go to your local council website planning service page. You can then search on any planning applications and results the borough has processed. Some sites are better than others.

eg:

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/YourServ...nningregister/

http://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/Home/En...ce/default.htm

[Peoplesoft bloke]

.

But by far the best way of getting anything through still seems to be a gypsy with a publically funded barrister.

Or in the case I'm most familiar with, a multinational with a record of obtaining government contracts manages to get permission for a development that was specifically ruled against at two previous inspectors inquiries, and was on land allocated as green belt and contrary to the currently defined local structure plan. No matter, wheel in a few consultants and away you go.

There were a couple of the politicos who objected at the first consideration. Plans were resubmitted and although the two were present on the evening, they were mysteriously taken ill and replaced by substitutes just before the crucial vote.

It's also worth mentioning (Tim 123) that it is theoretically illegal to determine planning applications along party lines (although as outlined above it clearly does happen).

As I said, get yer chequebook out, and away you go.

[ASB]

Except the elected representatives are ignorant donkeys with appropriate colour rosettes who rely on the council officers to make recommendations. They are also always scared that anyone they turn down may appeal which costs the council a lot of money. On the whole, it is easier for the council to say yes.

You might be right. Though Mrs ASBs usual problem is trying to get things through that are blatantly within plan but rejected on the whim of the appropriate officer.

A number of authorities do seem to have unwritten policy which seems to be "well we can always cave in on the inspectorate steps if it goes that far".

But by far the best way of getting anything through still seems to be a gypsy with a publically funded barrister.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I don't see how you could think that this has an effect.

The people making the decisions are the elected representatives. They have no chance of personally benefitting because the LA makes a profit on a bit of land that it owns, and every chance of being elected out of office if the building that they agree to is unpopular with masses.

tim

Except the elected representatives are ignorant donkeys with appropriate colour rosettes who rely on the council officers to make recommendations. They are also always scared that anyone they turn down may appeal which costs the council a lot of money. On the whole, it is easier for the council to say yes.

As for idea that they don't have any opportunity for personal gain - officially that is true of course, in practise things are rather different.

As for the laughable idea that any local councillors might be deposed at a future poll due to unpopular planning decisions, that would presuppose anyone cares, and on the evidence of turnout figures, they clearly do not.

My view of the planning system is based on considerable personal experience and having been married to woman who worked as an officer of a LA for many years.

[ASB]

I don't see how you could think that this has an effect.

The people making the decisions are the elected representatives. They have no chance of personally benefitting because the LA makes a profit on a bit of land that it owns, and every chance of being elected out of office if the building that they agree to is unpopular with masses.

tim

Yes, but the officers also have delegated powers don't they. The committee will usually pay any going though on delegated little if any attention. It is only where officers have refused that it will normally be heard by the committee.

[sasguru]

I suppose it is easier for you to try and make fun of me here than it is to answer the perfectly reasonable question I pm'd you.

Bunny boiler stalker alert

[threaded]

I have (another) daft idea.

I buy land that has no planning permission for residential property.

I apply agressively for planning permission (outline).

If agreed I sell at a profit (large).

If not I resell the land on at cost and try again.

e.g.

http://www.uklanddirectory.org.uk/la...le.asp?id=6796
http://www.uklanddirectory.org.uk/la...le.asp?id=6167


Genius or cretin?

Why bother with all that fuss? The planning system is corrupt to the core and you'll literally risk not only your money, but your life... So why not talk to someone like Persimmon, and get land they've already got permission for, but aren't going to build on for the foreseeable future?

[tim123]

Another good ploy is to buy land adjacent to some owned by the council, then apply for permission to develop the lot - the pound signs start to flash before their eyes
.

I don't see how you could think that this has an effect.

The people making the decisions are the elected representatives. They have no chance of personally benefitting because the LA makes a profit on a bit of land that it owns, and every chance of being elected out of office if the building that they agree to is unpopular with masses.

tim

[Peoplesoft bloke]

From what I've seen of the planning system, you need to factor in the cost of a planning consultant who knows how to play political parties off against each other and who to bribe.

Another good ploy is to buy land adjacent to some owned by the council, then apply for permission to develop the lot - the pound signs start to flash before their eyes (all that money we could use to prosecute people who overfill their wheelie bins!) and you're away.

Unfortunately, you're in the queue behind multinationals and supermarkets.