Reply to: There is no crisis. Buying your own home is a luxury, not a right

[hyperD]

I never really understood why people automatically think rising house prices are a good thing. You don't go "Oh my car now costs twice what it did 5 years ago.... fantastic"

Indeed, but you couldn't realise the equity on your car.

This is the reason why everyone is "desperate to get on the housing ladder" - it means with the flood of cheap money, you can borrow and go on your two annual holidays to Costa del Sol when before you couldn't.

The silly thing is, you could have gone on benefits and saved up £7000 for a holiday in Goa...

[Moscow Mule]

http://www.nationwide.co.uk/hpi/historical.htm

IIRC data is from 1952 onwards, you can choose if you want inflation adjusted or not.

[BrilloPad]

I never really understood why people automatically think rising house prices are a good thing. You don't go "Oh my car now costs twice what it did 5 years ago.... fantastic"

I think the idea is that they borrow more against the ever increasing worth of their house and fritter it away - thus making the economy look good.

Shame when the money has to be paid back - but can't people just go omn borrowing more and more forever? seems to have worked well over the last 30 years.

[expat]

Er, yes they do - at 2.5% a year (on average since record began).

Better than that, on average in the UK. Especially if by "since records began" you mean since building societies started publishing "house price indexes", i.e. 1970s. But my point was that this is abnormal, if you look wider and older. It is therefore not as much a given as some seem to think. I am not disputing the house price increases that have happened, just the contention that it is "always" so.

[bobhope]

Not really. In many countries, including Britain until after WWII, you would expect to sell a house for pretty much what you paid for it. The housing market was stable.

Now it is unstable in the UK, and the instability is going completely unadressed because people like it. And describe uncontrolled inflation punctuated by ruinous busts as a "healthy" housing market!

The situation here is abnormal, not to say pathological. Yes one can gain by speculating on a single-commodity inflation, but is that good for the economy?

It is just a transfer of wealth from the young to the old; from those who work and earn, to those who own and do not earn. the young who have to pay more and more to "get on the housing ladder" smoke the same stuff and start to see the same visions.... but it's not really a ladder, it's a Ponzi pyramid.

I never really understood why people automatically think rising house prices are a good thing. You don't go "Oh my car now costs twice what it did 5 years ago.... fantastic"

[BrilloPad]

Er, yes they do - at 2.5% a year (on average since record began).

Is that 2.5% absolute or relative to something?

Do you have a link for that? How much did prices rise in the time? How much did earnings rise?

[Moscow Mule]

... in the long-run houses always appreciate in value. ...

Not really....

Er, yes they do - at 2.5% a year (on average since record began).

[Cyberman]

a 'so-called' rough area. I find it quite nice actually. The point I am making is that there is a third option, in addition to renting or mortgaging, you could scrimp and make-do, save then pay cash.

Even with your third option you must have been paying some rent to parents, or were you a squatter or camping in a field ?

[expat]

...in the long-run houses always appreciate in value. ...

Not really. In many countries, including Britain until after WWII, you would expect to sell a house for pretty much what you paid for it. The housing market was stable.

Now it is unstable in the UK, and the instability is going completely unadressed because people like it. And describe uncontrolled inflation punctuated by ruinous busts as a "healthy" housing market!

The situation here is abnormal, not to say pathological. Yes one can gain by speculating on a single-commodity inflation, but is that good for the economy?

It is just a transfer of wealth from the young to the old; from those who work and earn, to those who own and do not earn. the young who have to pay more and more to "get on the housing ladder" smoke the same stuff and start to see the same visions.... but it's not really a ladder, it's a Ponzi pyramid.

[Churchill]

And that is the fundamental problem with this country today. It cuts across far more than just the current housing issue.

And, just to keep it on topic, I bought my house to live in. I don't care how much I could save per year by renting or whatever. It's a home for me and my family. I could afford it so I bought it, with finance I could also afford.

There is no right to home ownership, just like there is no right to owning an Aston Martin. You have the right to buy what you can afford subject to the effort you put in to make something of your life.

Problem is, that's not the current thinking of our Government.

IMHO of course...

Fair point, well put!

[ratewhore]

...Far too many think that that all they have to do is have kids and visit the benefits office for housing and support, with no desire to work to improve their lot. Then they bring up their kids to have the same parasitic philosophy on life.

And that is the fundamental problem with this country today. It cuts across far more than just the current housing issue.

And, just to keep it on topic, I bought my house to live in. I don't care how much I could save per year by renting or whatever. It's a home for me and my family. I could afford it so I bought it, with finance I could also afford.

There is no right to home ownership, just like there is no right to owning an Aston Martin. You have the right to buy what you can afford subject to the effort you put in to make something of your life.

Problem is, that's not the current thinking of our Government.

IMHO of course...

[Churchill]

Quite the most odious piece I've read in a long time. In the far past people built their own shelter, nowadays this right has been removed and replaced with what: the right to have some smug git tell you it's a luxury.

Stabbin's to good for 'em.

WCS!

[oracleslave]

The point I am making is that there is a third option, in addition to renting or mortgaging, you could scrimp and make-do, save then pay cash.

Then we are in agreement

[EternalOptimist]

So you lived in a craphole to scrape together enough to buy in a high crime area in Manchester and that works for you? Genius.

Personally I refuse to live in a craphole but maybe that's just me and the way I was brought up.

a 'so-called' rough area. I find it quite nice actually. The point I am making is that there is a third option, in addition to renting or mortgaging, you could scrimp and make-do, save then pay cash.

[oracleslave]

I lived in a tulipe hole for eight years so I could buy this place

So you lived in a craphole to scrape together enough to buy in a high crime area in Manchester and that works for you? Genius.

Personally I refuse to live in a craphole but maybe that's just me and the way I was brought up.