Reply to: Agent Scum

[BrowneIssue]

So if one ignored the recommendation and was put forward more than once, surely what harm can there be?

My own experiences of a person being presented twice:

a) I was recruiting for an Analyst Programmer. Amongst the CVs was one for Arthur sent by NastyAgent.

A few weeks later I am recruiting a DBA. I select Arthur who was submitted by AnyAgent. I got a call from NastyAgent who said they got Arthur's CV in front of me first - it was the same Arthur but with differently tailored CVs.

I told NastyAgent to go away. NastyAgent phoned my boss and said they would take ClientCo to court over this. My boss told me to throw Arthur's CV in the bin and take on the 2nd choice.



Spineless manager.

Sorry, Arthur. Sorry, AnyAgent. Sorry, me.

b) I applied for a contract with Council through AnyAgent. NastyAgent calls me about a suspiciously similar role - I check to see if it is the same - they say "No, same employer but different department".

AnyAgent gets me an interview with Billy Boss of ClientDept on the 10th. NastyAgent then call with an interview on the 8th with Billy Boss of ClientDept.

I was the only candidate put forward for this specialist role. NastyAgent had put me forward to the client at a rate lower than I was being offered by AnyAgent.

My CV ended up in the bin and the position did not get filled.



Nobody got any commission, I stayed on the bench, the client did not get the job done.

[DodgyAgent]

DA - Do you find ginger agents are genetically more stupid that normal ones?

Why Tay,? are you thinking of becoming one of us?

[DodgyAgent]

Well, since this has become the "Ask DA" thread....

A mate of mine applied for a role yesterday through an agency, who we will call P. He is a good fit, and the agent thought so, telling him he would send the CV over to the client.

I'm already working on the project, so said to the client about my mate going through P, and they should be getting his CV soon. Client tells me that they don't deal with P - they only deal with two agencies (A and H).

P told my mate that they would get him straight into the client, which he cannot do. Luckily for my mate, he now knows that P can't get him in there, he needs to talk to someone else. But WHY would the agency tell him that they are going to get him in (and to talk to people there if he knows any), if they can't?

(Apologies for this looking like a Moose post with all the letters and all )

Because they have nothing to lose, and by having someone who is wanted they can leverage this towards becoming a supplier themselves.

[tay]

DA - Do you find ginger agents are genetically more stupid that normal ones?

[TheFaQQer]

Well, since this has become the "Ask DA" thread....

A mate of mine applied for a role yesterday through an agency, who we will call P. He is a good fit, and the agent thought so, telling him he would send the CV over to the client.

I'm already working on the project, so said to the client about my mate going through P, and they should be getting his CV soon. Client tells me that they don't deal with P - they only deal with two agencies (A and H).

P told my mate that they would get him straight into the client, which he cannot do. Luckily for my mate, he now knows that P can't get him in there, he needs to talk to someone else. But WHY would the agency tell him that they are going to get him in (and to talk to people there if he knows any), if they can't?

(Apologies for this looking like a Moose post with all the letters and all )

[DodgyAgent]

It's happened to me before - without planning or intending to. Client took the max no of CVs (2-3) from the PSLs and ended up with 2 of mine. At the interview, I was told of that and client chose the agent that sent it first (or for any other reason). An offer was made and the other agent wasn't told about it, as not all candidates from the shortlist have to be invited for an interview. I had to dodge speaking to the agent for a few months, but that was the end of it.

In the case of a PSL that is well controlled the agent can squeal all they like, but the client is in control.

[Dow Jones]

Confused

It's happened to me before - without planning or intending to. Client took the max no of CVs (2-3) from the PSLs and ended up with 2 of mine. At the interview, I was told of that and client chose the agent that sent it first (or for any other reason). An offer was made and the other agent wasn't told about it, as not all candidates from the shortlist have to be invited for an interview. I had to dodge speaking to the agent for a few months, but that was the end of it.

[DodgyAgent]

You might call it blocking. But I call it 'downright deceitful and a restriction of trade.' A contractor should be able to fine any EB who does this with a day's pay based on the agreed rate.

It is probably fraudulent anyway

[DodgyAgent]

So if one ignored the recommendation and was put forward more than once, surely what harm can there be?
If you are good and the client thinks so, then at the interview stage, the client has to decide which agency to go with and then he can tell the other(s) that the CV had already been sent by a competitor. However, in DA's case, assuming he's been clever and he got the 2 names of contractors that he has put forward, what can he do about it afterwards?

I am not quite sure what you mean. If the agency has already used up its quota of 2 CVs and along comes a much better CV then unless the client agrees they are not able to submit another CV. rather than run the risk of that "perfect contractor" being submitted by another agent they simply tell the contractor that they are going to submit him. In that case the client never sees the CV.

[Dow Jones]

Hypothetical Qn

So if one ignored the recommendation and was put forward more than once, surely what harm can there be?
If you are good and the client thinks so, then at the interview stage, the client has to decide which agency to go with and then he can tell the other(s) that the CV had already been sent by a competitor. However, in DA's case, assuming he's been clever and he got the 2 names of contractors that he has put forward, what can he do about it afterwards?

[BrowneIssue]

Each agent is allowed to put say 2 CVs forward.

Aha! I can extrapolate from just those words to "The client has created an artificially tight restriction because they can't be arsed doing proper job & person specs to shortlist against and so the agencies have to get clever to work around that restriction and its implications".

I have been on the receiving end of over 100 faxed CVs from Mud Slinging Buggers for an analyst programmer role so I know how annoying that is. But 2 is a little small for a valid comparison.

They see your CV having already forwarded their quota and think "we must not let this guy get put forward by a competitor, so lets tell him we have put him forward, that way no one else places him". It is called blocking and it is a deliberate tactic used frequently by agencies.

Put into context, it makes rational sense. Thank you. You have lowered my blood pressure by a few percent.

(That example role I referred to was perfect for me and I was perfect for it and it paid bloody well. I have been angry about it for 2 months ... perhaps now I can move on.)

Some of them even have their IT systems designed in order to automatically send an email to everyone with the correct buzzwords telling anyone who responds whether suitable or not that they are being forwarded.

Ooh yes. I have received such emails. Hmm. Now I know to ignore them.

You've done a good job of explaining and kippering the blocking practices.

May your new suit never develop a shiny bottom.

[oracleslave]

reverse selling

[Denny]

It is called blocking, though you could call it reverse selling, i.e cutting out everyone else leaving the client with a choice of only your two CVs.

You might call it blocking. But I call it 'downright deceitful and a restriction of trade.' A contractor should be able to fine any EB who does this with a day's pay based on the agreed rate.

[DodgyAgent]

Ooh, DA, while you're here, would you explain something for me, please?

Why is "blocking" (thanks for giving me the name) done? I reckon I've had that done to me twice, possibly 3 times, since August. I fail to see the point of it. What is the benefit to the agent?

Example: a contract is advertised through Catalyst. An agent rings me about it; the job description and my CV match perfectly. The agent is REALLY excited and keen to put me forward - I agree. Over the next two days the other 9 Catalyst agencies all phone me about the role (I am a perfect match, after all) and I turn them all down saying "Already presented, thanks". 2 weeks later I see the role advertised again and get a call from one of the other 9 agents: "Did you actually get called to interview because I thought you'd get the job - they offered it to one of my candidates who refused it so they're looking again". I get this chap to call the client - I was never presented. I call the original agent who tells me "I think the job must have gone away; they never interviewed anyone". For the life of me, I cannot see why I was not put forward.

Each agent is allowed to put say 2 CVs forward. They see your CV having already forwarded their quota and think "we must not let this guy get put forward by a competitor, so lets tell him we have put him forward, that way no one else places him". It is called blocking and it is a deliberate tactic used frequently by agencies. Some of them even have their IT systems designed in order to automatically send an email to everyone with the correct buzzwords telling anyone who responds whether suitable or not that they are being forwarded.

We get round this by always checking with the client whether the CV has actually been sent. The problem is that it then becomes a matter of our word against the other agency's word as to whether the CV has been forwarded.

It is called blocking, though you could call it reverse selling, i.e cutting out everyone else leaving the client with a choice of only your two CVs.

[BrowneIssue]

... the really bad practices of "blocking" (saying they are sending a CV when they are not) ...

Ooh, DA, while you're here, would you explain something for me, please?

Why is "blocking" (thanks for giving me the name) done? I reckon I've had that done to me twice, possibly 3 times, since August. I fail to see the point of it. What is the benefit to the agent?

Example: a contract is advertised through Catalyst. An agent rings me about it; the job description and my CV match perfectly. The agent is REALLY excited and keen to put me forward - I agree. Over the next two days the other 9 Catalyst agencies all phone me about the role (I am a perfect match, after all) and I turn them all down saying "Already presented, thanks". 2 weeks later I see the role advertised again and get a call from one of the other 9 agents: "Did you actually get called to interview because I thought you'd get the job - they offered it to one of my candidates who refused it so they're looking again". I get this chap to call the client - I was never presented. I call the original agent who tells me "I think the job must have gone away; they never interviewed anyone". For the life of me, I cannot see why I was not put forward.