Reply to: Wunderboom - German exports surge

[RandyW]

Doomed.

[Charles Foster Kane]

The point that British PMs seem to have lost on is that good things that you only make in your country and don't give technology to others will be desired and will sell. Germans will never sell Mercedes to Indians, Chinese etc, they have pride not to do it and frankly the way they won't they will never even be in this position, yet in the UK iconic car brands are on a cheap fire sale from time to time - and this happens in country that started industrial revolution!

Aston Martin is British again, so I have to deem your tirade worthy, but moot.

[NoddY]

Rubbish. UK has got very small army, do you think you make more arms than Russia, USA, China? I think not. What you have are pretty expensive airplanes sold to arabs who do this in exchange for bribes. Would you have sold this stuff to them if you did not pay bribes? I doubt.

Now we know where the Marshall Plan money went:

Income:

1 x plane = £1m

Expenditure:

1 x cost of production = £0.9m
1 x bribe = £0.2m


Result = -£0.1m

Genius!

[AtW]

And dodn't forget we're the second largest arms manufacturer in the world.

Rubbish. UK has got very small army, do you think you make more arms than Russia, USA, China? I think not. What you have are pretty expensive airplanes sold to arabs who do this in exchange for bribes. Would you have sold this stuff to them if you did not pay bribes? I doubt.

[NoddY]

Whatever excuses are made the fact is that in the sixties and seventies both management and workers got complacent and lazy and let things drift. That combined with the semi-religious ideology of the free-market in the 80s and the results were the wholesale destruction of manufacturing industry.
It's instructive that the French managed to save Renault, which had many of the same labour problems. It seems every single country has a national long-term strategy except the UK.

Managed decline.

[sasguru]

Whatever excuses are made the fact is that in the sixties and seventies both management and workers got complacent and lazy and let things drift. That combined with the semi-religious ideology of the free-market in the 80s and the results were the wholesale destruction of manufacturing industry.
It's instructive that the French managed to save Renault, which had many of the same labour problems. It seems every single country has a national long-term strategy except the UK.

[Rantor]

Ah, but the point was that we weren't bombed so much that we had to rebuild everything from scratch. I wasn't arguing that Gerry and Tojo got aid and we didn't.

What did we spend ours on?

Paying interest on other money borrowed of the US, supporting a humungous standing army and winding down the empire.

[wendigo100]

Afraid not. We got more money from the Marshall Plan than anyone else

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

Just the usual ineptness and frittering away, just as we did with North Sea Oil.

Ah, I don't disagree, but the point was that we weren't bombed so much that we had to rebuild everything from scratch. I wasn't arguing that Gerry and Tojo got aid and we didn't.

What did we spend ours on?

[sasguru]

So why are we able to successfully build Triumph motorcycles again?

It's a very different kettle of fish building a relatively small output of motorbikes than maintaining a large car industry. There have always been small centres of excellence. And dodn't forget we're the second largest arms manufacturer in the world.

[sasguru]

The very fact that we were not bombed out.

Bombed to flip, Marshal Plan, and voila - brand spanking new modern industry. Same thing happened for the Japs.

Meanwhile we still send kids up chimneys. Well I do anyway.

Afraid not. We got more money from the Marshall Plan than anyone else

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

Just the usual ineptness and frittering away, just as we did with North Sea Oil.

[wendigo100]

Heck, if bombed out Germany could restore its manufacturing, how the hell UK could not?

The very fact that we were not bombed out.

Bombed to flip, Marshal Plan, and voila - brand spanking new modern industry. Same thing happened for the Japs.

Meanwhile we still send kids up chimneys. Well I do anyway.

[Troll]

You forget we tried but failed. British Leyland was a joke.

So why are we able to successfully build Triumph motorcycles again?

[AtW]

You forget we tried but failed. British Leyland was a joke.

Rover was doing pretty well in partnership with Honda (or Toyota?), but then suddenly they decided to stab their partner in the back - it could have been a very nice join venture benefitting both companies.

Ok, maybe UK can't build cars. Fine. But there were plenty of things build in UK well - I reckon the fundamental mistakes must have been stopping investment into R&D so you just slipped behind. Heck, if bombed out Germany could restore its manufacturing, how the hell UK could not?

[sasguru]

The point that British PMs seem to have lost on is that good things that you only make in your country and don't give technology to others will be desired and will sell. Germans will never sell Mercedes to Indians, Chinese etc, they have pride not to do it and frankly the way they won't they will never even be in this position, yet in the UK iconic car brands are on a cheap fire sale from time to time - and this happens in country that started industrial revolution!

You forget we tried but failed. British Leyland was a joke.

[AtW]

The point that British PMs seem to have lost on is that good things that you only make in your country and don't give technology to others will be desired and will sell. Germans will never sell Mercedes to Indians, Chinese etc, they have pride not to do it and frankly the way they won't they will never even be in this position, yet in the UK iconic car brands are on a cheap fire sale from time to time - and this happens in country that started industrial revolution!