Reply to: Scots "workshy" according to Jackie Stewart

[Bagpuss]

if everyone had the education that you or I had then there would be no welfare payouts, a healthier society, no jobless, virtually no crime.

There is no truth in it, but it is scientific fact

[DodgyAgent]

In a free market economics text book written for free marketeers it all sounds good !

In the harsh world of basic human instinct and economics, if people's well being and livelihood depends upon them looking after customers who can take their business elsewhere it is good.

[rootsnall]

Judging by your reaction the whole concept is beyond you. Why wouldnt it improve the education of the poorest?????

What do you mean it will cost too much money? if everyone had the education that you or I had then there would be no welfare payouts, a healthier society, no jobless, virtually no crime.

We buy food (more important than anything) by having choices. Even though we have 6/7 retailers to choose from it is an incredibly efficient and customer focussed form of provision.

In a free market economics text book written for free marketeers it all sounds good !

I'm not saying there isn't some worth in what you say but the free markets can't magically solve big social issues in the text book manner you describe.

[DodgyAgent]

It'll cost too much money and won't benefit the kids from the no hoper homes ie. the ones who need it the most

Judging by your reaction the whole concept is beyond you. Why wouldnt it improve the education of the poorest?????

What do you mean it will cost too much money? if everyone had the education that you or I had then there would be no welfare payouts, a healthier society, no jobless, virtually no crime.

We buy food (more important than anything) by having choices. Even though we have 6/7 retailers to choose from it is an incredibly efficient and customer focussed form of provision.

[rootsnall]

You are describing the state system as it currently stands.

True but a 'free market' approach won't improve things. I think things have actually improved a bit with ofsted inspections and nationwide testing as the sink schools now can't be hidden away quietly.

[rootsnall]

Build more schools, and schools that are poor will fail to attract children so unless they become good schools they will go bust.

It'll cost too much money and won't benefit the kids from the no hoper homes ie. the ones who need it the most

[tay]

As opposed to those who cannot write?

You, my good sir, are a prize noddy.

Just typos as I type quickly. I may be a poor typer, but least I am not a fat ginger.

[DodgyAgent]

You could but you'd have to get them a place at the expense of a middle class kid whose parents are fighting hard for that place. There are only so many good schools to go around and the already well educated live near them and make sure their kids go there and also ensure the school stays top grade. If the poor kid comes from an otherwise good home then they will benefit but what we are talking about here is kids from 'not' good homes who are already behind when they enter the education system and wouldn't get the outside school support to do well anyway. In other words it's not something you'll solve with vouchers.

Build more schools, and schools that are poor will fail to attract children so unless they become good schools they will go bust.

[rootsnall]

Why could you not send a child from a poor background to a top grade school?

You could but you'd have to get them a place at the expense of a middle class kid whose parents are fighting hard for that place. There are only so many good schools to go around and the already well educated live near them and make sure their kids go there and also ensure the school stays top grade. If the poor kid comes from an otherwise good home then they will benefit but what we are talking about here is kids from 'not' good homes who are already behind when they enter the education system and wouldn't get the outside school support to do well anyway. In other words it's not something you'll solve with vouchers.

[DodgyAgent]

You are having a laugh. Any system tending towards a free market will favour those already well educated and able to grab what is on offer. Providing underprivileged children from welfare dependent homes with a good education is a huge undertaking that would require a lot of state intervention over a long time period.

Why could you not send a child from a poor background to a top grade school?

[rootsnall]

A voucher system that empowers the consumer of education services, rather than the system we have now that empowers the providers of the services.

You are having a laugh. Any system tending towards a free market will favour those already well educated and able to grab what is on offer. Providing underprivileged children from welfare dependent homes with a good education is a huge undertaking that would require a lot of state intervention over a long time period.

[wendigo100]

The current resolution to this appears to be to find more ways to lower the bar for these disadvantaged kids. That can't be right.

[DodgyAgent]

DA - where is this good education going to come from ? Will it be provided by your free market driven education system. The kids from the poor areas, already behind when they start school through no fault of their own then get pitched in the worst schools.

A voucher system that empowers the consumer of education services, rather than the system we have now that empowers the providers of the services.

[wendigo100]

DA - where is this good education going to come from ? Will it be provided by your free market driven education system. The kids from the poor areas, already behind when they start school through no fault of their own then get pitched in the worst schools.

You are describing the state system as it currently stands.

[rootsnall]

As opposed to those who cannot write?

You, my good sir, are a prize noddy.

And have now been moved to a lovely room along with bagpuss and DA. Congrats.

DA - where is this good education going to come from ? Will it be provided by your free market driven education system. The kids from the poor areas, already behind when they start school through no fault of their own then get pitched in the worst schools.