Reply to: Armed Robbers Get Shot

[DBA_bloke]

That may well be the case.
We are speculating, but it may be that the only time that all players were in one place was during the robbery.
The police must have done a risk assesment and decided that it made sense to ambush them in flagrante even with all the risk that entails.

However, considering the Menezes case I am not sure our police are capable of making such decisions.

For once, we are in agreement... which means I have made a mistake somewhere... Oh Dear™!

[The Lone Gunman]

So, the only way, then, for the Police to bring a successful prosecution is to allow the crime to commence

That may well be the case.
We are speculating, but it may be that the only time that all players were in one place was during the robbery.
The police must have done a risk assesment and decided that it made sense to ambush them in flagrante even with all the risk that entails.

However, considering the Menezes case I am not sure our police are capable of making such decisions.

[DBA_bloke]

Getting caught holding up a bank with the guns in your hand and witnesses is very different.

Wake up idiot DBA...

So, the only way, then, for the Police to bring a successful prosecution is to allow the crime to commence, with all that goes with that (like dead bodies, maybe even innocent people's dead bodies) in a high street, with innocent folk about? Er, no, that's not right... YOU DUNCE!!!

Wake up Cnvt, you unicellular-brained twot.

[Rantor]

You mean there are other places in the world that are softer on crime than Britain?

Britain locks up a pretty hefty proportion of the population compared to most 'western' countries (dunno about oz or Japan) but of course nothing in comparison to the US.

Interstingly countries like Belgium don't seem to know what to do with people that probably shouldn't be relaeased - at some point they know they will have to let Detroux out and that will not go down well. I also saw that 2/3 of the prison population here are foreign nationals which pretty well fits in with their worldview.

[Old Greg]

Amazing isn't it.... the boys in blue execute a couple of armed thugs, save the time of the courts and money putting them up in HM hotels and they get accused of bungling it....

It's old school policing at it's best give them a medal and stop with all the PC crap please

Explain what this has got to do with political correctness.

[Dark Black]

But isn't it a bit worrying that the cops can know of a blag, turn up with shooters, and then, quelle surprise, hails of bullets in the high street? This wasn't, it seems, a 999 call response; it was an ambush that went wrong. It could have easily been a "Toddler Killed By Stray Police Bullet" thing.

That a couple of tuliphouses were topped is a delight to me; but the whole police operation seems to have been a bungled effort.

Amazing isn't it.... the boys in blue execute a couple of armed thugs, save the time of the courts and money putting them up in HM hotels and they get accused of bungling it....

It's old school policing at it's best give them a medal and stop with all the PC crap please

[Old Greg]

You mean there are other places in the world that are softer on crime than Britain?

UK is harsh by EU standards. Doesn't seem to be having much effect either.

[chicane]

In most European countries there is nowt you could do that would get you locked up for 25 years.

You mean there are other places in the world that are softer on crime than Britain?

[Old Greg]

The only reason for an investigation should be if there was any doubt as to whether it was the robbers that were shot, and not some innocent bystander.

If there is unambiguous evidence to the public that these people were trying to rob a bank, and then got shot by the police, make an example of the idiots. Emphasise that those who rob banks run the risk of being shot by the police.

I am getting tired of a justice system that tries to justify people's reasons for committing crime.

But... someone need to make a judgement as to whether there is 'unambiguous evidence'. The easiest and fariest thing IMO is to follow the verdict of the inquest. If the verdict is lawful homicide (can't remember the exact term), then no need for an enquiry. If there's an open verdict or unlawful killing verdict, then hold an enquiry with criminal charges to follow if appropriate.

[Rantor]

If the police did have a tip off and arrested before the event would the suspects, if found guilty, get a shorter sentance than getting caught in the act?

I assume catching them before would be some sort of "Conspiracy to commit...." charges.

Armed robbery seems to be a very high risk game - doesn't it routinely carry a 25 yr sentence in Britain?

In most European countries there is nowt you could do that would get you locked up for 25 years.

[King Cnvt]

I think so. But what a risk it is to allow the robbery to begin like that. If the article's accurate, then at least one resident living over the bank, was, in effect, in harm's way. No sign of clearing the area, etc. It just seems bonkers.

Also, why not pick them up before they got there? Arseholes carrying firearms is a gift for the cops: it carries super-heavy penalties, and is an easy nick.

Yeah right.

A good brief will explain that they did not know the guns were there, they are someone elses guns, etc and the court will give them 3 months.

Getting caught holding up a bank with the guns in your hand and witnesses is very different.

Wake up idiot DBA...

[scooterscot]

"Toddler Killed By Stray Police Bullet"

The Ladybird school of shooting, yours for £2.99 in WH Smith - the Flying squad

[DBA_bloke]

If the police did have a tip off and arrested before the event would the suspects, if found guilty, get a shorter sentance than getting caught in the act?

I think so. But what a risk it is to allow the robbery to begin like that. If the article's accurate, then at least one resident living over the bank, was, in effect, in harm's way. No sign of clearing the area, etc. It just seems bonkers.

Also, why not pick them up before they got there? Arseholes carrying firearms is a gift for the cops: it carries super-heavy penalties, and is an easy nick.

[HankWangford]

I expect they all had black and white strippy tops, lone ranger masks and bags marked swag...

If the police did have a tip off and arrested before the event would the suspects, if found guilty, get a shorter sentance than getting caught in the act?

[DBA_bloke]

The only reason for an investigation should be if there was any doubt as to whether it was the robbers that were shot, and not some innocent bystander.

But isn't it a bit worrying that the cops can know of a blag, turn up with shooters, and then, quelle surprise, hails of bullets in the high street? This wasn't, it seems, a 999 call response; it was an ambush that went wrong. It could have easily been a "Toddler Killed By Stray Police Bullet" thing.

That a couple of tuliphouses were topped is a delight to me; but the whole police operation seems to have been a bungled effort.