Reply to: German Bomb plot surprise

[sasguru]

Exactly, its the level of passive support that is so shocking.

Its important to differentiate Islam from Islamism, with the latter being a political interpretation and movement, an ideology rather than just a personal or privately practised religion.

If Dim Prawn had said "I think this proves that Islamism is the evil here, not any particular nation or race."

He would have been correct. The lines are a bit blurry though, even for those who bother reading up about whats going on.

Yes I think that's a more nuanced analysis than mine. I take your point.

[GreenerGrass]

30% supporting terror suggests otherwise

That suggests that 70% of muslims in this country are moderate Sufi Muslims who are against any form of terrorism, and 30% at least sympathise with Islamist points of view.
I never said Islamism was followed by a tiny minority. It clearly isn't.
Those prepared to actually commit acts of terror are however going to be a much smaller number.

Its all down to numbers though, even if only 1% of 2 million Muslims is prepared to commit to or support a terror cell, thats 20,000 people MI5 need to keep an eye on.

[Troll]

Its important to differentiate Islam from Islamism, with the latter being a political interpretation and movement, an ideology rather than just a personal or privately practised religion.

If Dim Prawn had said "I think this proves that Islamism is the evil here, not any particular nation or race."

He would have been correct. The lines are a bit blurry though, even for those who bother reading up about whats going on.

30% supporting terror suggests otherwise

[GreenerGrass]

Most people of all religions don't take their holy books literally.
Even if you did, it takes quite a lot of balls to actively commit to terrorism even if you are a committed religionist.
I recall polls in the UK consistently show a higher level than you would expect of Muslims "supporting" violent action even if they would never commit it themselves.

Exactly, its the level of passive support that is so shocking.

Its important to differentiate Islam from Islamism, with the latter being a political interpretation and movement, an ideology rather than just a personal or privately practised religion.

If Dim Prawn had said "I think this proves that Islamism is the evil here, not any particular nation or race."

He would have been correct. The lines are a bit blurry though, even for those who bother reading up about whats going on.

[darmstadt]

And some of them were in my area, even my town....

18 000 deutsche Staatsbürger sind seit 1945 zum Islam übergetreten. Allein im vergangenen Jahr waren es nach Angaben des Islam-Archivs in Soest rund 4000, berichtet die «Kölnische Rundschau» (Donnerstag). Ein Jahr zuvor, 2005, seien lediglich 780 Übertritte registriert worden.

Basically 18,000 Germans have converted to Islam since 1945 and in the previous year, around 4000 but in 2005 there were only 780.

Any figures available for GB?

[wendigo100]

The Bible's Old Testament is full of similar, violent nonsense e.g.

[And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain.(2:34) . . . And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.(3:6) . . . And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them.(7:2)--"Deuteronomy"]

All a load of old plop.

That's the old testament. Christianity is based on the new testament.

[wendigo100]

So was Hitler following the Bible when he was implementing the final solution?

Which bit?

[Churchill]

Surprising - 2 of the 3 arrested are ethnic Germans who converted to Islam.
Is there something in the German character that tends to extremism? Discuss.

Aus Infidel Schwein-Hund!!!

[Troll]

...and you were doing so well

[Troll]

I wouldn't worry about Troll. He's an imbecilic cretin whose name tells you all you need to know. He's the CUK bore, absolutely predictable and dull.

diddums

[Troll]

The Bible's Old Testament is full of similar, violent nonsense e.g.

[And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain.(2:34) . . . And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.(3:6) . . . And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them.(7:2)--"Deuteronomy"]

All a load of old plop.

Unless I read that wrong it describes a historical event, not a doctrine for present day believers to follow

HTH

[Andy2]

You're not looking at the bigger picture. I support Turkey joining the union provided there is no freedom for Turkish nationals to work in the EEC for a few years. Reasons for this:

- Turkey is no poorer than Greece or Portugal when they joined the EC in the 80s
- Prosperity is the best innoculation against extremism
- Turkey is officially secular and would act as a good example to officially Islamic countries
- Islamist extremists couldn't claim the West is against all Muslims per se.

Carrot and stick diplomacy works best

Third person arrested was turkish national. Turks have elected a hardliner leader in the election. So much for the moderate turkish.Do you really want them all over europe to complete the islamisation of europe

[sasguru]

The Bible's Old Testament is full of similar, violent nonsense e.g.

[And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain.(2:34) . . . And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.(3:6) . . . And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them.(7:2)--"Deuteronomy"]

All a load of old plop.

I wouldn't worry about Troll. He's an imbecilic cretin whose name tells you all you need to know. He's the CUK bore, absolutely predictable and dull.

[DBA_bloke]

Indeed .. the intellectually challenged one is correct, how can we tolerate those for whom this is the word of God?.

The Bible's Old Testament is full of similar, violent nonsense e.g.

[And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain.(2:34) . . . And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.(3:6) . . . And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them.(7:2)--"Deuteronomy"]

All a load of old plop.

[sasguru]

big-bonedwa if you don't mind!

Yes if Islam was PC, the big-bonedwa would consist of a clip round the ear.