Reply to: Employment Agents... bad experiences?

[wendigo100]

Name and shame the Terms and Conditions!

[Cooperinliverp00l]

Name and Shame agency

[kesm]

hahahaha!

Yeah, you can go ahead and laugh, I did, when I saw that T&C was Terms and Conditions

[realityhack]

What are "the T&C's in the contract" ?

thank you

I'll be kind and not laugh too much. "terms and conditions".

Unless you want him/her to cut&paste the T&Cs here?

[kesm]

I used to say that I would do the first contract offered. I'm changing that now. From now on I'll do the first contract i sign. Signing depends on the Job, the rate, the location and the T&C's in the contract. After the interview, you usually know about parts 1, 2, 3 but not 4. Until I get a contract which meets all 4 I will consider myself still available.

What are "the T&C's in the contract" ?

thank you

[Muttley08]

The point that seems to be missed here is that the OP had already made a verbal agreement to start and a start date had been set in stone. OP has not yet confirmed if they accepted via e-mail or not, or if they had reviwed the contract and/or signed it (Which would make it a written agreement).If the OP had said to the agent, yes in principle but i'll need to see the contract before I commit and i'm only committed once the contract is signed. Then it wouldn't be a problem.

I don't care what anybody says, or what excuses they put forward this behaviour is unprofessional, wrong and not what contractors should be doing. Sadly it seems that there are a growing number of contractors who have no ethics, are not professional and see no problem with dropping people in the tulip. Feeble excuses like "It's what an agent would do to us" are complete cop outs. Two wrongs don't make a right FFS, and what really gets my goat is that the unprofessional w*nkers out there are dragging the rest of us down.

You do not commit to a role unless you intend to do it, if you think you may do it but aren't sure you tell the agent yes on principle but I need to go through the contract before I make my final decision.

All this talk about no ethics is a bit rich...

Personally I would stick to what I said...but to expect everyone to stick to that is completely unrealistic...

We live in a world where 95% of people look after no1 and don't give a sh1t about anyone else....If you expect more you'll always be disappointed...

But then I'm a pessamistic old git....

[Ardesco]

The point that seems to be missed here is that the OP had already made a verbal agreement to start and a start date had been set in stone. OP has not yet confirmed if they accepted via e-mail or not, or if they had reviwed the contract and/or signed it (Which would make it a written agreement).If the OP had said to the agent, yes in principle but i'll need to see the contract before I commit and i'm only committed once the contract is signed. Then it wouldn't be a problem.

I don't care what anybody says, or what excuses they put forward this behaviour is unprofessional, wrong and not what contractors should be doing. Sadly it seems that there are a growing number of contractors who have no ethics, are not professional and see no problem with dropping people in the tulip. Feeble excuses like "It's what an agent would do to us" are complete cop outs. Two wrongs don't make a right FFS, and what really gets my goat is that the unprofessional w*nkers out there are dragging the rest of us down.

You do not commit to a role unless you intend to do it, if you think you may do it but aren't sure you tell the agent yes on principle but I need to go through the contract before I make my final decision.

[DodgyAgent]

I think we're getting a bit emotional, and a bit carried away with 'professional standards' that don't exist in 95% of the market - either with contractors or business in general.

Clients change their minds, agents change their minds, contractors do....

My point was that the agent shouldn't get excited when someone does the same tricks they do. If the agents and clients are responsible they know this could happen - I've taken on contractors and know until they show up, it's not guaranteed....that's life....

If the guy has been offered double then fair play to him...that'll make a lot of difference to him, the client will live, their business won't be impacted that much...

This sort of behaviour happens commerically, you shift your better consultants from small customer to big customer who'll grow the contract, make you more money....If the client gets upset, they're in the wrong game, if the agent does, they are too...

So it is fair game then for your builder not to turn up on a verbal promise, or your plumber or your washing machine repair man? Why then do companies bother with paying wet behind the ear accenture grads for £2000 per day when they could easily hire experienced bods off the contractor market for quarter of the money.

Just because you have worked, clearly, on non critical applications that does not mean other clients have a requirement for reliable and dependable suppliers.

[Muttley08]

So that makes it OK for contractors to jerk clients around does it? You are not the only show in town and there are a finite number of clients/ it is a very small world out there. Fine if a contractor takes a calculated decision to swap at the last minute and break his word (we have all done it to some degree), but please dont come on here and start giving all this "they are not loyal" or agents are dishonest so its OK for me to copy them bullsh*t. If you do this accept it and take responsibility for it and dont try and heap the blame on someone else then you at least show some semblance of honesty. There are consequences to this sort of behaviour, to you individually, to contractors and agents (who are much worse than contractors), and most importantly to clients out there. I suggest you just accept accept the responsibility of your actions.

I think we're getting a bit emotional, and a bit carried away with 'professional standards' that don't exist in 95% of the market - either with contractors or business in general.

Clients change their minds, agents change their minds, contractors do....

My point was that the agent shouldn't get excited when someone does the same tricks they do. If the agents and clients are responsible they know this could happen - I've taken on contractors and know until they show up, it's not guaranteed....that's life....

If the guy has been offered double then fair play to him...that'll make a lot of difference to him, the client will live, their business won't be impacted that much...

This sort of behaviour happens commerically, you shift your better consultants from small customer to big customer who'll grow the contract, make you more money....If the client gets upset, they're in the wrong game, if the agent does, they are too...

[Rantor]

That makes it OK then? so contractors should behave as agents behave?

What, sitting around spivving people on the phone all day?

[DodgyAgent]

can of worms..

i just can't help thinking the agent would have done the same if he found another contractor willing to do the job at half the price..

except i doubt the agent would have been as honest in his reasoning.

please read the board t&c. thanks
sp

That makes it OK then? so contractors should behave as agents behave?

[DodgyAgent]

Overinflated pay? As against the merely normally inflated pay that some of us pick up?

Not to mention the simple market rate that some of us make, not at all inflated over what the customer is prepared to pay

I knew that one of you would bite . I believe that you are worth what someone is prepared to pay. I was merely putting the view that many others see you as (the govt to name but one)

[Euro-commuter]

So why then did he not say to the agent that he would accept the contract as soon as he received it to sign it? so whilst technically you are right he still verbally accepted the job. And one of the points is what message does this send out to clients who nowadays have the choice to ignore the contractor option and go for the indian software house. You can shake all the laws and technicalities that you like (how would you like one of your service suppliers such as your bank to promise to do something and then wriggle out of it on a technicality? Fine if the contract had been an age being sent out or the agent/client was messing the guy around. Some of you pick up your overinflated pay without ever understanding that most of the companies that you work for are masters at customer service. It is a shame that a bit of it doesnt rub off on you occasionally.

Overinflated pay? As against the merely normally inflated pay that some of us pick up?

Not to mention the simple market rate that some of us make, not at all inflated over what the customer is prepared to pay

[barry_abs]

can of worms..

i just can't help thinking the agent would have done the same if he found another contractor willing to do the job at half the price..

except i doubt the agent would have been as honest in his reasoning.

please read the board t&c. thanks
sp

[shoes]

So why then did he not say to the agent that he would accept the contract as soon as he received it to sign it?

That would be the usual thing to do, and is always how I term my verbal 'acceptance'. However the agent should know if the contract hasn't been signed then its not yet a done deal.

masters at customer service. It is a shame that a bit of it doesnt rub off on you occasionally.

The situation is unfortunate, and one to be avoided. It's obviously sensible not to annoy your customers. It's also true however that you are in business to benefit yourself, sometimes one customer will lose out to another.

The agents reaction was not appropriate. This kind of stuff should be like water off a ducks back to an agent, if an agent hasn't learned that people can be unreliable they couldn't have been in the game for very long. He should have taken it on the chin, sh1t happens. Whinging at the contractor/supplier is understandable but not a very mature or useful reaction.