Reply to: Buying a car scam?

[Numptycorner]

Alarm is raised over ‘bankers’ draft’ scam

WARNING: Diana Sellars.A BOLLINGTON woman has raised the alarm about conmen using forged or stolen bankers’ drafts to buy cars after she was ripped off in a counterfeit draft scam.

The crime bears many of the hallmarks of a nationwide hoax by Lithuanian gangsters.

Diana Sellars, a conference organiser, sold her silver Golf GTDI to the con-man for £8,800, after he responded to an advert she placed on AutoTrader.

Convinced a banker’s draft was the equivalent of cash, Diana accepted one from the fraudster, who claimed to be a Dane called Hubert Manning.

A few days afterwards she visited her bank who told her the draft had not cleared.

She said: “Like many people I thought bankers’ drafts were completely reliable. Now it looks like I have not only lost my car but I am also seriously out of pocket.

“If the car was sold before I reported it the new owner has the legal right to it as well. I don’t even know if the draft was stolen or counterfeit.

“I just want as many people to know about this as possible so they don’t have to go through what I have.”

The fraudster who called himself “Hubert”, who was about 5ft 8in tall with dark hair, rang Diana prior to their first meeting.

He told her he lived in Leeds and arranged to see the car the next day.

Diana said: “He turned up in a silver Audi A8, had a good look at the car and I went round the block in it with him. He said he needed to do a finance check and look at another car in Manchester.

“He called the next day, supposedly from Leeds and said he wanted my car, Daisy, and would bring the cash. Forty five minutes later, he called again saying the bank would not let him take out that amount until Tuesday and would I take a banker’s draft.

“He made a point of saying he wanted it tonight as he had sold his other car, the Audi. I told him I would rather not but he insisted he needed it that night.”

The National Criminal Intelligence Service warned the public in January about Lithuanian gangs, who respond to private ads.

They then purchase the cars, which tend to be medium range, with high quality forged drafts. The vehicle is either sold on or taken back to Lithuania.

The gangsters do not identify themselves as Lithuanian but pose as Scandinavian or Western European nationals.

The fraudsters have hit locations in the south and across the country.

Inspector Gary Simpson, head of Macclesfield Neighbourhood Policing Unit said: “There is no pattern of these frauds in the area so far – although in my time on the force I have come across frauds involving bankers’ drafts.

“Many people believe that bankers’ drafts are the same as cash and it is important people realise they are not.

“A banker’s draft does not guarantee payment. Until it has cleared it doesn’t mean anything.

“People selling items should not part with their property until the cash is in their account.

“If anyone is suspicious you should ask to see some ID but also get them to stand next to the car or item and take a photo of them with a camera or mobile phone.

“This can really help us with any enquiries and will act as a deterrent to con-artists.”

[Colemanisor]

Nope, but I have heard of forgeries - there was even a story a few years ago where a batch of building society cheques had been stolen.


If you are a genuine buyer and seller waiting a few days for the cheque to clear will not be a problem.

Happened to me, sold a car for £8k, accepted a bankers draft believing it was secure, 10 days later my bank informed me the bankers draft was stolen. I lose the car, the £8k plus additional £1k in lawyer's fees to prove the car was no longer my property, because the thief had sold the car onto a dealer before I informed the police of the fraud.

[Numptycorner]

You can't cancel a bankers draft, or a building society cheque. Either of those, or cash, should do.

the bank has no obligation to honour them, they simply state the amount was in your account at that time. The frauster relies on your assumption.

[r0bly0ns]

Ok, but there are other scams which operate the same way :-

http://www.met.police.uk/fraudalert/...g_homescam.htm

Edited my original post

[oraclesmith]

Ok, but there are other scams which operate the same way :-

http://www.met.police.uk/fraudalert/...g_homescam.htm

[r0bly0ns]

419 scams work on international money transfers not personal cheques.

Who would accept a personal cheque in the post from Nigeria?


Edit:
Sorry, not that clear, 419 doesn't work on personal cheques but the poster is correct, personal cheques can be canceled after clearence if forgeries.

This is mainley used when buying cars and motorbikes etc.. though (especially on ebay). see "Overpayment Cheque Scam Still Netting Victims" here...
http://www.hoax-slayer.com/issue38.html#two

[Clippy]

It is fact. It's essentially how all the 419 scams work. The money is there in your bank account, apparently cleared and okay, and then much later it turns out to be stolen, or obtain by fraudulent means, and the bank will take it back not caring about the tulip you're left in.

Banker's draughts are notorious for being forged and/or stolen as well.

There doesn't seem to be a safe way, other than cash, and then there's always the chance you're going to get beaten up on the way to the bank.

Well knock me down with a feather.

Didn't know that - thanks for the heads up.

I guess it's another example of the banks passing the buck, so to speak.

[VectraMan]

That doesn't strike me as being right.

Who's responsibility should it be that cheques are forgery proof?

I can understand this principle for (large) retailers who can train their staff but for the average Joe...

Is this fact or internet hearsay?

It is fact. It's essentially how all the 419 scams work. The money is there in your bank account, apparently cleared and okay, and then much later it turns out to be stolen, or obtain by fraudulent means, and the bank will take it back not caring about the tulip you're left in.

Banker's draughts are notorious for being forged and/or stolen as well.

There doesn't seem to be a safe way, other than cash, and then there's always the chance you're going to get beaten up on the way to the bank.

[Clippy]

It makes no difference that the cheque cleared - unless you're going to take all the money out of your bank account a do a runner ! If the cheque is a forgery it can weeks, even months for the banks to discover it. Once they do they will reverse the credit to your account and possibly freeze it as well if they think it's part of a money laundering scam. So... don't take personal cheques !!!

That doesn't strike me as being right.

Who's responsibility should it be that cheques are forgery proof?

I can understand this principle for (large) retailers who can train their staff but for the average Joe...

Is this fact or internet hearsay?

[Let-Me-In]

Ask him to leave his wife with you as deposit...

[oraclesmith]

It makes no difference that the cheque cleared - unless you're going to take all the money out of your bank account a do a runner ! If the cheque is a forgery it can weeks, even months for the banks to discover it. Once they do they will reverse the credit to your account and possibly freeze it as well if they think it's part of a money laundering scam. So... don't take personal cheques !!!

[Clippy]

You can't cancel a bankers draft, or a building society cheque. Either of those, or cash, should do.

Nope, but I have heard of forgeries - there was even a story a few years ago where a batch of building society cheques had been stolen.


If you are a genuine buyer and seller waiting a few days for the cheque to clear will not be a problem.

[TheFaQQer]

You can't cancel a bankers draft, or a building society cheque. Either of those, or cash, should do.

[Clippy]

Can't remember where, but I have read the suggestion that even cash isn't infallible: if he buys your car with cash that identifiably comes from the sale of something that wasn't his to sell, the cash wasn't his to give you, therefore it wasn't yours to receive, and it can be taken back from you, or even from where you spend it.

I don't believe it myself, but I read it on the internet......

So you have to qualify the source of funds being used to purchase your car before you agree to sell it?

Hmm, definitely a load of poo poo.

Stick the car in the trader or on Pistonheads for free.

Sell for cash or cheque (must clear first before handing over the car).

Simple.

[oraclesmith]

Cash is King. Never ever take a personal cheque unless it's from a bona-fide company or someone you know well. They can come back months later having been found as forgeries and you'll have to give the money back to the bank.

I've come across a couple of dodgy situations with buying and selling cars. One was an Asian guy who phoned up using our classified ad in the local paper and wanted us to bring the car round to his place. We did this, but then a young white guy came out to have a look round it. The Asian guy then phoned with a very low offer so we told him to feck off.

Another time we found a car in the paper to buy and went to see it. The 'seller' and his girlfriend had just moved into rented accomodation and gave us some story about him selling the vehicle on behalf of his mate up North. We did an HP check and found it was a write-off that had been put back on the road. So we told them to feck off.