Reply to: What's a standard day?

[gingerjedi]

I get a daily rate no mater what, if I'm late due to traffic its no big issue, only last week I had to go home at lunch time because the wife was having a 20 week scan, when I put a half day on my time sheet my boss queried it and said put a full day down seeing as you're on a daily rate.

I appreciate this is an exception rather than the norm.

[Euro-commuter]

I'm not sure about this. There is a school of thought that first impressions count, so that if you leave at 17:00 every day for the first couple of weeks at a contract, other people will always remember that.

Conversely, if you work late every day for the first couple of weeks, then people get it into their heads that you "always work late" even if you subsequently don't.

I agree with that too. You have to wing it.

[bobhope]

Sorry, I thought the arithmetic was clear: if you are contracted for an 8-hour day and you work 9-5 with 1 hour for lunch, you are being paid for your lunch break. If you are contracted for an 8-hour day and you work 9-6 with 1 hour for lunch, you are not being paid for your lunch break. Not that it matters how you put it.

You hit an aspect of contracting here: you are contracted to the agency, but the expectations that matter are the client's.

I agree with barely_pontless: start as you mean to go on. I've seen any number of cases where contractors who started with an early Friday departure, a late Monday arrival, or even Fridays off/at home, have continued doing that throughout the contract, whereas others who asked for the same thing have been refused.

To put it at its worst, if the client asks you after a month or more not to leave early on Frdays, you can always say (if you mean it) that you're not sure you would want to continue on that basis, so let's discuss it. If OTOH you say "can I leave early on Fridays" and he says no, you can hardly say let's discuss it, because you just have.

It is normally much better than that: just do it, and make sure that your work is more than satisfactory. Then the question of changing things is less likely to arise.

Personally (to get back to the point) I don't even ask that question: I make a point of not keeping regular hours.

I'm not sure about this. There is a school of thought that first impressions count, so that if you leave at 17:00 every day for the first couple of weeks at a contract, other people will always remember that.

Conversely, if you work late every day for the first couple of weeks, then people get it into their heads that you "always work late" even if you subsequently don't.

[Chugnut]

I'm on a daily rate based on an 8 hour day. My commute is quite long and the work is quiet so I tend to get in around 8:20-8:25 and leave about 4:45, sometimes just after 5. On Friday's I leave at 4:25. I always have lunch at my desk so I can keep to these times. I don't feel the need for a longer lunch and I'd rather be home sooner.

If I go out for lunch I work later to make up for it. The client always gets at least their 8 hours, and they're happy with my work. To be honest, provided you've fullfilled your contractural obligations, there's no need for anyone to get bent out of shape.

I agree with the earlier comments about establishing the pattern first rather than asking to change it later.

[Cooperinliverp00l]

I have my team working a 37.5 hour week each taking a min of 30 min lunch break unpaid. They don't have exact numbers but more of a window of when they have to start and and when they can finish.

I operate the flexible approach that as long as they do their hours i'm happy. Some work an hour extra each day so that they can knock off early on Friday. I allow them to do this on the one understanding that if the Sh1t hits the fan or there is a lot of work on they have to revert back to contracted core times.

IanIan i would speak direct to the client and explain what you would like to work and whether you can do it on the assumption that if required you will be flexible as well and work any additional hours to get the job done.

[BrilloPad]

At the current gig its an 8 hour minimum. Only a few contractors do 8 - most do 9(as I do). Some do 10+. And one chap regularly does 12-14 hour days!

One thing I found is that if I take a half day and charge for 4 hours they pay me for 8 anyway. I did complain to pimp but apparently its what contract says. Think I might do a half day every day.

[Churchill]

I pay my staff a 40 hour week.
9 til 5
1 hour unpaid lunch break
10 min break am paid -10 min break pm paid
law is any person working over 6 hours is entitled to paid 20 min uninterupted break.
this is considered a standard day. lunch may vary between 30 min & 45 min.
My staff forego the hours lunch and all knock of at 4, (voluntary agreement).

Diver, you're talking tulipe. Your numbers don't add up.

9 til 5 is 8 hours!

[Euro-commuter]

Well they definitely expect 9-6. But the agent rang at 5.30 to see how the day had been and was surprised I was still at my desk. I rang him afterwards and he was apologetic and said he'd ava' word. So given he sent me the initial confirmation with the 'standard day' thing I believe 9-6 is not what he had in mind.

Not sure being payed for lunch is relevant because its a daily rate but I agree with the poster who implied it should be clear that the end time is non-standard.

Sorry, I thought the arithmetic was clear: if you are contracted for an 8-hour day and you work 9-5 with 1 hour for lunch, you are being paid for your lunch break. If you are contracted for an 8-hour day and you work 9-6 with 1 hour for lunch, you are not being paid for your lunch break. Not that it matters how you put it.

You hit an aspect of contracting here: you are contracted to the agency, but the expectations that matter are the client's.

I agree with barely_pontless: start as you mean to go on. I've seen any number of cases where contractors who started with an early Friday departure, a late Monday arrival, or even Fridays off/at home, have continued doing that throughout the contract, whereas others who asked for the same thing have been refused.

To put it at its worst, if the client asks you after a month or more not to leave early on Frdays, you can always say (if you mean it) that you're not sure you would want to continue on that basis, so let's discuss it. If OTOH you say "can I leave early on Fridays" and he says no, you can hardly say let's discuss it, because you just have.

It is normally much better than that: just do it, and make sure that your work is more than satisfactory. Then the question of changing things is less likely to arise.

Personally (to get back to the point) I don't even ask that question: I make a point of not keeping regular hours.

[barely_pointless]

oh Dear, you must start as you mean to go on..........

1. Take Lunch, always, always and not negotiatable, this must be at a minimum of 20 mins away from your desk, all things being equal you can then bugger off at 17:30pm, and *they* are still ahead.

Thing is to make sure that *they* think they are getting some form of value for money.

If you set expectations early on in the contract that you are there from 0900 to 1800 and always there between 1200 and 1400 at your desk, then that will become the defacto "agreement" and it won't matter what the written contract is , it will be the "perception".

If they want you to do 9 hour days, then get the rate changed!!!


here are some "standard" days I have personally encountered....

0830-1930/often 2200 - working for a consultancy..... yeuch
0830-1700 - Investment Bank
0730-1630 - Government (and 0930-1330 fridays )
0900-1730ish - Typical Blue-Chippy

[IanIan]

Why don't you ask them?

Well they definitely expect 9-6. But the agent rang at 5.30 to see how the day had been and was surprised I was still at my desk. I rang him afterwards and he was apologetic and said he'd ava' word. So given he sent me the initial confirmation with the 'standard day' thing I believe 9-6 is not what he had in mind.

Not sure being payed for lunch is relevant because its a daily rate but I agree with the poster who implied it should be clear that the end time is non-standard.

[Diver]

I pay my staff a 40 hour week.
9 til 5
1 hour unpaid lunch break
10 min break am paid -10 min break pm paid
law is any person working over 6 hours is entitled to paid 20 min uninterupted break.
this is considered a standard day. lunch may vary between 30 min & 45 min.
My staff forego the hours lunch and all knock of at 4, (voluntary agreement).

[Euro-commuter]

Hi there,

My contract says... 'standard day 8 hours'. Does this mean 9-5 or can they get away with asking for 9-6 with an hour for lunch?

Cheers,

Ian.

It seems to me that in general lunch is done in your own time, except in the UK where office people expect to be paid for taking lunch.

As for what it actually means in your contract, that would be in the mind of the person who drafted it I suppose. I'd say that they can certainly get away with saying that they don't think of it as working time. But if they want 9-1, 2-6 then they should say so.

[King Cnvt]

Why don't you ask them?

[IanIan]

Appreciate the effort but please could someone suggest an answer to my question?

[Jog On]

I did an 8 hour day in my last gig by tacking on an extra 15 mins each end of the day, otherwise it would have been 7.5 hour days which is more 'standard'.