Reply to: Calm down dear! Your job is not going to India

[barely_pointless]

I had three of these chaps working for me on a project last year, they were very average and had no imagination regarding the design , it was as if they had learned it all off by heart, when asked for options, there was only and will ever be only one offered, I contrast this with some UK developers I have worked with and I get 3-4 options , including the very good to the very bad.

I certainly won't put my family on any SE asian Airline, and that should tell you something.

[Francko]

I recently left the company I was working before because they decided to move their support centres to San Palo (Brazil)

I am working with a Sao Paulo office as well. To say that people there are being exploited and treated in semi-slaverism conditions is a large understatement.

[Moose423956]

Truth of it is they don't have the indepth knowledge we have, and I attribute this to their hi tech economies being new and lacking in-depth experience. If you are highly experienced and technical then there is no competition...

Stuff thats getting outsourced is the simple/easy stuff. The complex stuff has be done locally because they are not up to it.

I agree with the first point. The business knowledge of the outsource bods I've worked with has been minimal. Not only that, but the people who work here don't stay more than a few months, so they don't get the chance to build up the knowledge.

However, in my experience it's not just the simple stuff that's outsourced, it's everything, despite the obvious inability of the outsource company to provide the required skills. That's the problem, and that's why the service being provided is so poor. They think they can do the job, but soon find that they can't.

It will come full circle, clients will start losing patience with the offshore companies, then they'll bring it all back onshore. Just like with call centres. It's now a big USP to say "UK call centres only". Ironically, one of the banks that advertise that was among the first to use offshore call centres - Nat West.

[Troll]

When I get back from hols all the UK based development contract staff will be gone, replaced by Indian chappies offshore... should be interesting times ahead!

[backagain]

Getting back on-topic...

I have just returned from 3 years traveling and working in Asia (SE Asia/India/Malaysia/Indonesia, etc). Truth of it is they don't have the indepth knowledge we have, and I attribute this to their hi tech economies being new and lacking in-depth experience. If you are highly experienced and technical then there is no competition...

Stuff thats getting outsourced is the simple/easy stuff. The complex stuff has be done locally because they are not up to it.

Also the mindset is different. We regard technical computing as a profession like being a doctor/accountant. They regard it as engineering, similar to fixing lifts or motorbikes. They also don't encourage specialism; eg Cisco CCNA or Redhat Certified. Result of this is generalist engineers without indepth skills. Also most engineers in Asia stick at for three years and are really looking to climb into a management role asap because the technical role is not valued or respected. This mindset is going to be the biggest setback to them building up a hi-tech business sector since you wont get the indepth technical specialists. If you dont believe me, take a look at the jobspecs on jobdb.com.

Demand is also a big problem. For example Bangalore cannot get hold of enough skilled people. Infrastructure is another problem (as simple as not enough electricity or water). Many Indians who went to Singapore for high salaries can now earn more in India, and many are now returning. Not quite the same case with the US, but even so, many are returning because the money is good and they want to back at home.

Despite the advancing economies, the general environment in India is very run down. I have been to Delhi a couple of times, and I would not want to live there! The enviornment outside the office is pretty poor and run down!

I recently left the company I was working before because they decided to move their support centres to San Palo (Brazil) and Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia). They obviously think they can drive the cost down, but what is the reality is that these places dont have the skills to do the technically demanding work that is required. I would say my previous company will have a serious problem providing the same level of quality they did before, and ultimately it will lead to dissatisfied customers. What irks me is that the support contracts they were charging for will remain the same, and what is more amazing is the profit markup is quite a markup already.

[Stan]

Elephant insurance have regularly ballsed up my policy, the only person I've spoke to on my many calls who wasn't a total dimwit sounded Indian.

[Euro-commuter]

you daft racist!

probably making up the shortfall, our universities now turn out psychologists and physiotherapists rather than engineers... didn't you know? its not trendy to be an engineer/computer scientist...

Trendy? Take out a 20k loan, study for 4 years, then look for a job in competition with people from other lands who don't have your costs. No, it's not trendy.

[Ruprect]

Ah! I see more unsubstantiable information. You're not a Computer Scientist any more than a mechanic down at the local garage is qualified to design Typhoon.

IT specialists deal with exactly what the label say: IT. If they realised the difference and perhaps our universities began to produce real scientists and not vocationally trained software engineers we might have less to worry about. And even if you do consider yourself an engineer how many are CEng either through the IEEE or BSC.

HP

Nice pedantry and missingthepointness

[zathras]

I often wonder why this sudden "skills shortage" is coinciding with our recent "improved education system!"

When I look at what my nephew is doing in his IT course (GCSE) it has got things like create a spreadsheet.

When I was doing it we were capable of writing the spreadsheet program itself, let alone individual spreadsheets!

He does not even know if a project will be required or what kind of things they would ask for.

[r0bly0ns]

Is this the one where you pay 6.50 per month in the first 6 months? I didn't sign up for it but they bloody put it on and I asked for it to be removed, they said 12 months contract sorry old boy. I insisted and it was removed very recently. I was not spared the pigeon English though, when they cannot understand my account number, having to repeat it several times it gets a bit annoying. Now I'm thinking that I was calling them to get my 6.50 removed, HSBC are a bit of a joke.

Yep that's the one.
It doesn't guarantee you a UK bod, but you get preference of one is available after you bash in your account details.

I've been with HSBC for over 15 years now (since it was Midland), and I think that the quality of service varies vastly from branch to branch, some branches are excelent and some I have walked out of because they were so rude and incompetant.

[HarryPearce]

Scientist? Don't make me larf

you daft racist!

probably making up the shortfall, our universities now turn out psychologists and physiotherapists rather than engineers... didn't you know? its not trendy to be an engineer/computer scientist...

Ah! I see more unsubstantiable information. You're not a Computer Scientist any more than a mechanic down at the local garage is qualified to design Typhoon.

IT specialists deal with exactly what the label say: IT. If they realised the difference and perhaps our universities began to produce real scientists and not vocationally trained software engineers we might have less to worry about. And even if you do consider yourself an engineer how many are CEng either through the IEEE or BSC.

HP

[Causus Deli]

I also bank with HSBC, signed up for Bank Account Plus as they gave me a £50 a month saving on my mortgage + free family travel insurance for the price of £13 a month.

Once I had signed the form she told me of the other 'Unoficial' benefit that is not advertised....

Bank account plus members get priority routing to UK call centers

Is this the one where you pay 6.50 per month in the first 6 months? I didn't sign up for it but they bloody put it on and I asked for it to be removed, they said 12 months contract sorry old boy. I insisted and it was removed very recently. I was not spared the pigeon English though, when they cannot understand my account number, having to repeat it several times it gets a bit annoying. Now I'm thinking that I was calling them to get my 6.50 removed, HSBC are a bit of a joke.

[r0bly0ns]

I bank with HSBC, I will not talk to anyone in the call centre in India it's too much like hard work. Always ask to speak to someone who speaks English.

I also bank with HSBC, signed up for Bank Account Plus as they gave me a £50 a month saving on my mortgage + free family travel insurance for the price of £13 a month.

Once I had signed the form she told me of the other 'Unoficial' benefit that is not advertised....

Bank account plus members get priority routing to UK call centers

[Causus Deli]

I bank with HSBC, I will not talk to anyone in the call centre in India it's too much like hard work. Always ask to speak to someone who speaks English.

[Troll]

Computer Systems & Electronics...

Ahh sensible stuff