Reply to: Flying the Flag for Britishness.

[Diver]

But St George didn't exist either...according to some versions of history...

So all this time the english have been lying about a liar who went into a lair and killed a mythical beast

God I need professional help

[Stan]

Is that so?

He was a Palestinian too, wierd eh.

[Let-Me-In]

No such thing as Dragons, Therefore St george was a Liar.

I'm going to have my roast duck dinner now

Ta Ta

But St George didn't exist either...according to some versions of history...

[Gibbon]

Blimey I don't recall that in the DaFotRE... t'was a long time ago though... might be due another peek!

I'm on my second read now and actually read this passage only yesterday, it's a big book and there's a lot to take in. Few modern historians write with such eloquence and feeling.

To stand in the Roman Forum at dawn, when it's devoid of snapshot tourists,
and just wonder how such a powerful city came to dominate the fairest part of the earth and now all thats left is ruins.

I'm surprised the moslems haven't had it banned as it isn't very kind to Mahommet either.

[Troll]

By EDWARD GIBBON


The odious stranger, disguising every circumstance of time and place, assumed the mask of a martyr, a saint, and a Christian hero; and the infamous George of Cappadocia has been transformed into the renowned St. George of England, the patron of arms, of chivalry, and of the garter.

From the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.

The Church doesn't like this version though !!!!!

Blimey I don't recall that in the DaFotRE... t'was a long time ago though... might be due another peek!

[Gibbon]

The common view is he was born in the 3rd century in Cappadocia to Christian parents,became a Roman soldier but protested Romes persecution of the Christians

Imprisoned & tortured, but stayed true to his faith, beheaded in Palestine

which books state otherwise?

By EDWARD GIBBON

George, surnamed the Cappadocian, was born at Epiphania in Cilicia, in a fuller's shop. From this obscure and servile origin he raised himself by the talents of a parasite; and the patrons, whom he assiduously flattered, procured for their worthless dependent a lucrative commission, or contract, to supply the army with bacon. His employment was mean; he rendered it infamous. He accumulated wealth by the basest arts of fraud and corruption; but his malversations were so notorious, that George was compelled to escape from the pursuits of justice.

After this disgrace, in which he appears to have saved his fortune at the expense of his honor, he embraced, with real or affected zeal, the profession of Arianism. From the love, or the ostentation, of learning, he collected a valuable library of history rhetoric, philosophy, and theology.

Soon the prevailing faction promoted George of Cappadocia to the throne of Athanasius. The entrance of the new archbishop was that of a Barbarian conqueror; and each moment of his reign was polluted by cruelty and avarice. The Catholics of Alexandria and Egypt were abandoned to a tyrant, qualified, by nature and education, to exercise the office of persecution; but he oppressed with an impartial hand the various inhabitants of his extensive diocese.

The primate of Egypt assumed the pomp and insolence of his lofty station; but he still betrayed the vices of his base and servile extraction. The merchants of Alexandria were impoverished by the unjust, and almost universal, monopoly, which he acquired, of nitre, salt, paper, funerals, &c.: and the spiritual father of a great people condescended to practise the vile and pernicious arts of an informer.

The Alexandrians could never forget, nor forgive, the tax, which he suggested, on all the houses of the city; under an obsolete claim, that the royal founder had conveyed to his successors, the Ptolemies and the Caesars, the perpetual property of the soil. The Pagans, who had been flattered with the hopes of freedom and toleration, excited his devout avarice; and the rich temples of Alexandria were either pillaged or insulted by the haughty prince, who exclaimed, in a loud and threatening tone, "How long will these sepulchres be permitted to stand?" Under the reign of Constantius, he was expelled by the fury, or rather by the justice, of the people; and it was not without a violent struggle, that the civil and military powers of the state could restore his authority, and gratify his revenge.

The messenger who proclaimed at Alexandria the accession of Julian, announced the downfall of the archbishop. George, with two of his obsequious ministers, Count Diodorus, and Dracontius, master of the mint were ignominiously dragged in chains to the public prison. At the end of twenty-four days, the prison was forced open by the rage of a superstitious multitude, impatient of the tedious forms of judicial proceedings. The enemies of gods and men expired under their cruel insults; the lifeless bodies of the archbishop and his associates were carried in triumph through the streets on the back of a camel; and the inactivity of the Athanasian party was esteemed a shining example of evangelical patience. The remains of these guilty wretches were thrown into the sea; and the popular leaders of the tumult declared their resolution to disappoint the devotion of the Christians, and to intercept the future honors of these martyrs, who had been punished, like their predecessors, by the enemies of their religion.

The fears of the Pagans were just, and their precautions ineffectual. The meritorious death of the archbishop obliterated the memory of his life. The rival of Athanasius was dear and sacred to the Arians, and the seeming conversion of those sectaries introduced his worship into the bosom of the Catholic church.

The odious stranger, disguising every circumstance of time and place, assumed the mask of a martyr, a saint, and a Christian hero; and the infamous George of Cappadocia has been transformed into the renowned St. George of England, the patron of arms, of chivalry, and of the garter.

From the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.

The Church doesn't like this version though !!!!!

[Diver]

Saxon England ended in 1066

The Saxon Norman ancestry is still relevent.

We, the welsh still celebrate the fact. but can not understand the vehement dislike that the english have for their very close relatives accross the chanel in france.
After all is said and done, we actually like the english/french even though they chose to squat on our property.

That is all I have to say on the matter.
We are starting to upset the Notables, and I don't want to get banned yet!
I like the people on this site.

[Troll]

It is displayed to represent the victory of the red dragon of Wales over the White Dragon of Saxon England.
We kicked your butts

Saxon England ended in 1066

[Diver]

How do you feel about having one as your national symbol?

Perfectly happy, ours is a mythical beast

The Standard of Wales, a crimson Dragon on fine sarcenet of green and white was held aloft in legend by King Arthur, and in truth by brave Cadwaladr, a warrior prince of the seventh century. This bold banner was also the Standard of Rhodri Mawr (Rhodri the Great), whose political unity of Wales in the ninth century was inspiring. Later, in the twelfth century, another Cadwaladr, the infamous brother of Owain Gwynedd, flew the Red Dragon Standard from the battlements of his castle in Aberystwyth.

A further historical and geographic link in this strange chain of events was forged at the turn of the fifteenth century when the followers of the great Owain Glyndwr in the year 1401, under the self-same banner of the Red Dragon, fought for Freedom and defeated the mighty army of Henry the Fourth in an awesome battle on the banks of the river Hyddgen, high in the Plynlimon mountains - not more than a stone's throw from where the Nant-y-Moch reservoir is today.

It is displayed to represent the victory of the red dragon of Wales over the White Dragon of Saxon England.
We kicked your butts

[Troll]

The common view is he was born in the 3rd century in Cappadocia to Christian parents,became a Roman soldier but protested Romes persecution of the Christians

Imprisoned & tortured, but stayed true to his faith, beheaded in Palestine

which books state otherwise?

[Gibbon]

Feckwits, St George was actually a twat of a bishop at Alexandria, he taxed people so bad that Gordon Brown would blush !! When the emperor Julian (the apostate and my avtar) came to the throne his own people killed him. The Christians then martyed him and declared him a saint. He become popular through the crusades and his veneration was brought back with the returning knights with all the usual 'myths'.


SIGH

Read some books .... it helps.

[Troll]

I'm Back

Aren't you even slightly humiliated by the fact that you patronise a man who told everybody that he had just killed a huge scary monster dragon.

How do you feel about having one as your national symbol?

[Diver]

That's 'cos George boy slew them all...cya... enjoy

I'm Back

Aren't you even slightly humiliated by the fact that you patronise a man who told everybody that he had just killed a huge scary monster dragon.
In wales he would have been battered to death by the local populace for being stupid enough to think that he could get away with it here.

Jaberwocky is not real either by the way.

[Troll]

No such thing as Dragons

That's 'cos George boy slew them all...cya... enjoy

[Diver]

We have the cross of St George on ours... famous for slaying dragons

No such thing as Dragons, Therefore St george was a Liar.

I'm going to have my roast duck dinner now

Ta Ta