Reply to: Low attainers 'poor white boys'

[pickle]

when i got my desmond in 1987 from a crappy collegel of higher education, i was still in the top 7% of my peer group. these days i'd be in the top 40-50%. unless i'm missing something and kids are roughly 7 times more intelligent than my mates and i, this means that degrees have been devalued massively in the past 20 years.

No, it means that higher education has become massively more accessible in the past 20 years. Did you really think your 2:2 from a poly put you in the top 7% of the population? In terms of what? I think part of the middle class angst over the spread of higher education is that it does remove one of the main differentiators between the classes (having a degree), thus improving social mobility. Which is a good thing when your only way is up, but can be scary when your only way is down.

On almost any measure of a country’s success, higher education rates are always seen as a positive. There are direct correlations with lower unemployment rates, higher productivity, GDP, etc etc. The answer to places like “Bolton University” isn’t to shut them down and open up bricklaying colleges, it is to continually strive to improve the quality of teaching and range of disciplines on offer.

Onwards and upwards and all that.

[bogeyman]

if more kids did plumbing & brick-laying instead of gdoing meaningless media studies degrees at bolton "university" then maybe we wouldn't be importing so many latvian tradesmen....!!

Unfortunately I think they'd just end up being crap, lazy plumbers and brick layers.

The problem is with the work ethic (or lack thereof) amongst the 'working class' in modern British society.

At least the Latvians et al have some sort of ambition and drive and don't expect to be paid for doing sod all.

[anally retentive]

But if only clever, hard working people go on to produce clever hard working kids, and there is no state intervention, where will that leave us? With an ever growing underclass of low achieving, stupid, lazy people? Is such a "Liverpudlian-ization" of our working classes not something we should try and avoid?

Perhaps we should neuter them and ship in more Indians. It would be cheaper than investing in decent universal education.

some schools should be run along the lines of military training camps. i honestlt believe that the only thing to break the cycle as described above (which actually isn't too far from the truth) is for some of the little scrotes to endure a few years in a harsh regime, away from the futility of their daily lives. the one thing that real discipline instills after a time is a proper sense of self worth in an environment of respect for others.

at the same time, there's something else that is screwing up our youth. when i got my desmond in 1987 from a crappy collegel of higher education, i was still in the top 7% of my peer group. these days i'd be in the top 40-50%. unless i'm missing something and kids are roughly 7 times more intelligent than my mates and i, this means that degrees have been devalued massively in the past 20 years. therefore there's a whole swaythe of grads expecting good graduate jobs who just won't get them. it also means that employers are raising the entrance bar for positions that 20 years ago would never have been graduate jobs. either way, there's going to be a large number of kids at the top end of the system who are going to be just as disenfranchised as those at the bottom.

if more kids did plumbing & brick-laying instead of gdoing meaningless media studies degrees at bolton "university" then maybe we wouldn't be importing so many latvian tradesmen....!!

[andy]

I'm Sally Anne like

you mean you look like SA ?

[Numptycorner]

I'm Sally Anne like

[Rantor]

Perhaps we should neuter them and ship in more Indians. It would be cheaper than investing in decent universal education.

Weren't the Swedish gov doing this up until recent times?

Apols to any vikings if this is bollox.....

[pickle]

The tone of your post suggests that this is something that hasn't already happened.

Its happening right now. But its a relativley recent phenomenon, IMHO.

[chicane]

With an ever growing underclass of low achieving, stupid, lazy people?

The tone of your post suggests that this is something that hasn't already happened.

[pickle]

honestly, good education has much less to do with resources, and much more to do with parents' aspiration for their children.

But if only clever, hard working people go on to produce clever hard working kids, and there is no state intervention, where will that leave us? With an ever growing underclass of low achieving, stupid, lazy people? Is such a "Liverpudlian-ization" of our working classes not something we should try and avoid?

Perhaps we should neuter them and ship in more Indians. It would be cheaper than investing in decent universal education.

[sasguru]

Ah, but reality is a fairly nebulous concept on here....when doe sthe alter-ego become the real character?

Must take a lot of effort to keep all those plates spinning

When in doubt, just remember that you're Spartacus

[Rantor]

You think it's one for his CD name, or for his real one?

Ah, but reality is a fairly nebulous concept on here....when doe sthe alter-ego become the real character?

Must take a lot of effort to keep all those plates spinning

[Ruprect]

or could it be because their immature, uneducated, chav parents don't give a toss about their children's education?

honestly, good education has much less to do with resources, and much more to do with parents' aspiration for their children. it's also vital that teachers (who on the whole are totally committed to their profession) are respected again in society and allowed to impose proper standards of behaviour. this means backingthem up legally, rather than tying one hand behind their backs.

in my parents' time at school, the early days of grammar schools meant that for the first time working class kids had a real route into universities and 'better' jobs. therefore parents who cared pushed their children hard to learn. the schools didn't have too many 'resources' and the classes were large. but commitment of parents and teachers meant thatkids were given every chance to succeed.

look at india, where there are still precious few 'resources' per child. especially out of the large cities. but it's now generally acknowledged that their school-leavers are as well equipped as ours, if not better.

[Euro-commuter]

How long before Causus Deli catches onto this thread?

You think it's one for his CD name, or for his real one?

[chicane]

How long before Causus Deli catches onto this thread?

[sasguru]

Could this be because resources have had to be diverted to attempt to integrate immigrant children without English as a language?

No.

Next.