Reply to: South Africa

[Troll]

I think your idea of a nomadic lifestyle is a little obtuse. I lived a nomadic lifestyle for a little over 10 years. As a contractor I am little more than a nomad. Providing much needed skills and expertise to communities. I have lived in many countries and communities spanning South Africa, Australia, Ireland, UK, France and Italy. I have had plenty of time to study other cultures and understand them. Sadly the outcome of most of these studies is that we are all just human with all the same general characteristics. I still don't think anyone of us has an explicit right to any form of ownership of the planet.

No, you are a migrant, the simple reason being you can buy your food/shelter/security with the fruits(sic) of your labour.

[cykophysh39]

Nomads live an existence where the daily task is to find sufficient food to feed the people and livestock to keep alive.
There is not point in having artists, creators, thinkers within a nomadic society as you are too busy trying to take care of the daily necessities to dream or explore.

I think your idea of a nomadic lifestyle is a little obtuse. I lived a nomadic lifestyle for a little over 10 years. As a contractor I am little more than a nomad. Providing much needed skills and expertise to communities. I have lived in many countries and communities spanning South Africa, Australia, Ireland, UK, France and Italy. I have had plenty of time to study other cultures and understand them. Sadly the outcome of most of these studies is that we are all just human with all the same general characteristics. I still don't think anyone of us has an explicit right to any form of ownership of the planet.

[cykophysh39]

The original useage of kaffir was to describe the majority of the natives of S.A.

HTH

This is so incorrect. The word has origins way before South Africa was even discovered

[wendigo100]

Nomadic cultures worked just fine, they just didn't stand a chance against greedy people.

I don't know what is meant here by "greedy people".

Do you mean settlers, who build dwellings for shelter, cultivate crops, farm livestock ... and then have the audacity to defend their investment?

[Troll]

yes nomadic cultures worked fine because when they moved, the entire community moved together. Community and culture breaks down due in part too much movement of individuals into and out of the community (till there are no more common roots). I think that's what has happened pretty much everywhere and it's a fairly recent thing (last 100 years mostly).

Nope - you will only have a 'culture' associated with settled -i.e. non-nomadic- tribes; nomad traditions (culture) will be severely limited by daily work to the point of non existence
Your community point actually proves the need for settled communities - what are the benefits from a nomad travelling with other nomads if not for security?

Nomads live an existence where the daily task is to find sufficient food to feed the people and livestock to keep alive.
There is not point in having artists, creators, thinkers within a nomadic society as you are too busy trying to take care of the daily necessities to dream or explore.

It is only when the daily toil of finding food is replaced by a predictable(ish) settled existence that people have spare time to start to explore their creative sides, pass on learned knowledge (other than by a oral tradition) to the next generation, and begin to enquire about the world they live in.

[Troll]

Nomadic cultures worked just fine, they just didn't stand a chance against greedy people.

I’m not sure if you are being serious here..the only (original) greedy people would be other nomadic tribes - i.e. raiding crops, stealing livestock etc!

Constantly moving to access new grazing pastures is a wasteful expenditure of energy and resources, moving may or may not take you to better lands or water supply, but the act of moving expends energy and burns bulk off your cattle - all a bit hit & miss.

It's far more efficient to coral your livestock (making them easier to guard), guarantee your water supply by dams or reservoirs and introduce crop rotation for your plants or grazing land

But all of this requires ownership of the land.....

[wendigo100]

Nomadic cultures worked just fine, they just didn't stand a chance against greedy people.

Not true. As someone said above, you plant crops, you tend them, you should have them. Not some "nomad" who turns up as they ripen.

And there you have the basis for nationhood.

[sunnysan]

The non-believer is usually spelt with a single f - kafir or less frequently kaffur

The original useage of kaffir was to describe the majority of the natives of S.A.


HTH

Its from the same orginal concept. And the word was orginally to describe native africans long before RSA even existed. The Muslim slave traders used it give or take and "f" or two.

Anyway I know what it means. Judging by your first contribution to this thread, you little surf around wikipedia will enlighten you slightly

[christhecontractor]

Nomadic cultures worked just fine, they just didn't stand a chance against greedy people.

yes nomadic cultures worked fine because when they moved, the entire community moved together. Community and culture breaks down due in part too much movement of individuals into and out of the community (till there are no more common roots). I think that's what has happened pretty much everywhere and it's a fairly recent thing (last 100 years mostly).

[Stan]

Look at it the other way - what benefit do you gain from living within a tribe/clan/city state/nation as opposed to existing as a nomad just wandering around the planet.

Security, the rule of law, land ownership (so the crops you plant in the ground can be called 'yours')

People have and will always continue to group along ethnic lines in order to achieve those things not possible with a nomadic culture.

Nomadic cultures worked just fine, they just didn't stand a chance against greedy people.

[Stan]

Yeah, I know, this concept that only one group of people should belong to one piece of earth, is totally the reason why this planet is in the state it is.

true

[fzbucks]

The non-believer is usually spelt with a single f - kafir or less frequently kaffur

The original useage of kaffir was to describe the majority of the natives of S.A.


HTH

And the reason why it was used to describe natives of S.A. was not because the mulims enjoyed their company for afternoon tea.

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuffaar
& http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafir

[sasguru]

as opposed to what? an unretarded cretin? do you even know the meaning of the words you bandy about?
Your little gobtulipe mouth is full of vitriol; be silent rather than confirm your stupidity

Cretinism may come about because of mental retardation (it's original sense) or simply by not being very bright (it's modern usage). I don't know which it is with you.
I will also leave it up to the esteemed forum members to judge our relative stupidity.

HTH

[GreenerGrass]

Sadly I think SA has got to go that way before it will get any better. Although many will say, it is an economic powerhouse, and it has infrastructure , blah, blah. These arguments mean nothing.
South Africa will go the same route as the rest of Africa only at a slower pace.

South Africa, after all is only another african state, and history tells us the direction how these states go. Robert Mugabe is not a unique figure. His policies are not unique within africa.


Africa is a melting pot of many cultures and races. Although the injustices of a colonial past are the most recent wounds that need to heel, There are wounds that have cut Africa deeper than that, and it is these wounds that will need to heal, before she will rise.

Yes exactly, I was about to post something similar.
It makes me nauseous to hear Ken Livingstone harp on about Nelson Mandela freeing South Africa from racial prejudice and turning it into some multicultural utopia, when you just know how its going to end up eventually.
They've had a good run with property prices in the nice areas haven't they? But if I owned anything out there I'd certainly liquidate all my SA assets prior to the World Cup. Haven't they tried to suppress all the reports about violent crime out there? People getting skinned alive etc..

I wonder how exactly they'll achieve the redistribution of land and property, perhaps some crippling inheritance tax for whiteys so their kids are forced to relinquish the parents homes to "the state" ie corrupt govt officials and their families.
20 years from now we'll see charity appeals for the starving in one of the worlds richest countries according to mineral deposits.

[Troll]

Yeah, I know, this concept that only one group of people should belong to one piece of earth, is totally the reason why this planet is in the state it is. The concept that anyone of us is superior to the other is the disease that they call humanity.

How can any of us proclaim to be righteous enough to own any square millimetre of this planet, just because we are of a certain colour, race or religous belief. When all you have to do is look at the stars in the sky, and you see how really insignificant we are in the universe.

If there is a god, he wouldn't of made us in his own image, the entire human race is just one big joke!

Look at it the other way - what benefit do you gain from living within a tribe/clan/city state/nation as opposed to existing as a nomad just wandering around the planet.

Security, the rule of law, land ownership (so the crops you plant in the ground can be called 'yours')

People have and will always continue to group along ethnic lines in order to achieve those things not possible with a nomadic culture.