Reply to: Preludes to perm. Employment.

[Vito]

My pleasure...Marco in particular is a good guy...

[2uk]

Thanks Vito , I appreciate it.

[Vito]

Try jobserve, a dubai agency who recruit in my game use it.

Try emailing the following:

Samir Sabri @ sss@rpint.com

Marco @ Marco.Guarda@ae.ey.com

Steve @ www.tmsrecruitment.com


Good luck...

[2uk]

Will dig out a couple of recruitment people I know out there and post them tonight/tomorrow...

Now that is an effort you don't expect from unknown people.

[Vito]

Vito , can you hint any job sites for Dubai , except jobsindubai ?

Will dig out a couple of recruitment people I know out there and post them tonight/tomorrow...

[rootsnall]

Vito , can you hint any job sites for Dubai , except jobsindubai ?

Try jobserve, a dubai agency who recruit in my game use it.

[tim123]

Ah...I see...well thats a challenge...

Given the companies that you have listed I assume that you are a network engineer working in Telco?

.

Sorry no cigar.

I work on developing products.

Most of the skills that I use are easily transferable into database type work, but the business knowledge is not.

And that's the problem, no business knowledge equals no way through the front door. Not even if you're prepared to be a junior numpty programmer and could code the socks of the average junior numpty programmer that the consultant companies send in.

tim

[2uk]

Vito , can you hint any job sites for Dubai , except jobsindubai ?

[Vito]

I think you misunderstand.

I'm not asking for a list of companies that employ consultants to do database work on stupid rates (that I can undercut).

I'm asking "How can I change my skill set so that I get even the teeniest chance of a foot in the door"?. I don't do database work or IT infrustructure or anything else that these companies might need. I do engineering (the real hands on stuff, not a job that has engineer in the title for no reason.)

tim

Ah...I see...well thats a challenge...

Given the companies that you have listed I assume that you are a network engineer working in Telco?

If you are then I would look to work abroad...Dubai (Nokia has a pretty decent base there) has a new company that is really struggling to develop a decent network, and there is also one in Oman I believe. Also, I'm pretty sure Etisilat (a Dubai based network) is looking to move into Egypt...

The reason I suggest going to that general region is that the Brits are very highly thought of and generally their work ethic is applauded...as such it is easy to end up being asked to work on things outside your normal skillset once you are out there simply because you have the right mindset. When I was out there last I ended up doing financial forecasting and P&L creation, things that I had never done at a senior level before...it was hard work but it has added to my CV significantly. Things like this happening in the UK are far more unlikely and therefore as a contractor I guess it is pretty easy to get stuck dong what you've always done.

[HankWangford]

I think you misunderstand.

I'm not asking for a list of companies that employ consultants to do database work on stupid rates (that I can undercut).

I'm asking "How can I change my skill set so that I get even the teeniest chance of a foot in the door"?. I don't do database work or IT infrustructure or anything else that these companies might need. I do engineering (the real hands on stuff, not a job that has engineer in the title for no reason.)

tim

eco-engineer?

[tim123]

Look at the companies that use the likes of Accenture, PWC and Capgemini...if these guys are getting work there then the companies are clearly prepared to pay top dollar for top quality.

All of the companies that you quote are b2b which means that whilst they may be very successful very large profit generating organisations, they need to keep costs down as there are lots of people taking a cut along the distribution path.
.

I think you misunderstand.

I'm not asking for a list of companies that employ consultants to do database work on stupid rates (that I can undercut).

I'm asking "How can I change my skill set so that I get even the teeniest chance of a foot in the door"?. I don't do database work or IT infrustructure or anything else that these companies might need. I do engineering (the real hands on stuff, not a job that has engineer in the title for no reason.)

tim

[Vito]

Was that an answer to my question?

Sample companies in my client base:

Siemens, Phillips, Ericsson, Nokia, Samsung. They are all paying as little as they can get away with ATM.

Which large major cooporate should I be looking at?

The companies that are paying the better rates (but still not bril) are the smal companies that you have never hear of.

As to 'make sure you deliver proven value'. How can I possibly be the driver of this?

tim

Look at the companies that use the likes of Accenture, PWC and Capgemini...if these guys are getting work there then the companies are clearly prepared to pay top dollar for top quality.

All of the companies that you quote are b2b which means that whilst they may be very successful very large profit generating organisations, they need to keep costs down as there are lots of people taking a cut along the distribution path.

As for delivering proven value in pounds and pence...its probably easier in my line of work than in many others, but it is always possible. Nearly every client is more interested in the bottom line than anything else...and if you don't know how you contribute to that then thats a problem in itself.

Look at every piece of work with a Business Case in mind...what is the ROI for the client?

If you look at it any other way then you're in trouble...so...I can employ you for £500 per day or John for £250...you may have more experience and some additional skills, but its still a no-brainer...I'm going for John every time.

However...if by employing you gives me treble the ROI, then clearly you are a much better bet.

I don't know what you do...but nearly every role has a pounds and pence value attached to it somewhere along the line that can be used...

A guy that used to work for me never understood his value until one day I sat him down and explained how important his work was. His role was basically data entry on spreadsheet that calculated commission payments. So you might argue that its difficult to put a defined value on that. Well...because he was so good, he noticed a glitch in the spreadsheet (that had been created by someone else a couple of years previous) that effectively meant that I had been overpaying commission by £100k per month...this had gone un-noticed for two years and argueably it would have continued for the next two years...so you could argue that he saved the company c.£2.5m...I know he now uses this to sell his health check services and it always goes down well.

[tim123]

Only work for major corporates and make sure you deliver proven value that can be measured in pounds and pence

Was that an answer to my question?

Sample companies in my client base:

Siemens, Phillips, Ericsson, Nokia, Samsung. They are all paying as little as they can get away with ATM.

Which large major cooporate should I be looking at?

The companies that are paying the better rates (but still not bril) are the smal companies that you have never hear of.

As to 'make sure you deliver proven value'. How can I possibly be the driver of this?

tim

[Vito]

Only work for major corporates and make sure you deliver proven value that can be measured in pounds and pence

[tim123]

Every company goes through phases...and each industry follows the leader in that field...

So...a major market leader will exist on Contractors because their Head believes that it ensures the best expertise, provides flexibility to match skills to work, and keeps the headcount low which the City like...

Then, new fella (or lass) takes over...(s)he has a major deliverable to cut cost and immediatly aims for reducing the contractor bill...so, kicks out the contractors and recruits permies (many of these will be contractors who have made themselves indespensible and as such cause a hike in Permie salaries...however, their time is limited because the City will get upset about lack of productivity (caused by Permies) and will get nervous about FTE count (generally considered a bad thing as it doesn't allow fluid movement in line with market forces)...

So...new guy, gal takes over and brings back contractors who charge more than before to make up for time lost sitting on the bench waiting for the market to change...also helped by the contractors who went Permie before on a big salary, now commanding even more by returning to being a contractor (normally with a healthy payoff from their Permie role as they are the most expensive Permies so first out the door)...

So basically...be grateful for the way this all works as it sends market rates up...and enjoy the golf!

Oh how I wish this were true.

I'm still seeing companies offer depressed 2002 salaries and contractor rates for people and only then if they have a 100% match on the must haves. They could do this in 2002-4 and they still think that they can do it now.

They want to buy in people who can do the job immediately and if they can't find someone whos an exact fit they won't take someone with good generic skills, they will train up someone that they already have.

And if they can't do that they will get some offshore bod to to it for tuppence an hour.

How do I move into this world that you are in?

tim