Reply to: Toyota is now #1

[VectraMan]

Ah the voice of reason (well apart from the TVR bit obviously - are you insane?).

A pro-global warming documentary I saw recently (Dispatches I think - and no not that documentary) talked about bio fuels, and raised a lot of these points. The eco-mentalists presented basically admitted that bio fuels could only possibly provide a tiny fraction of fuel requirements. On top of that, the best bio fuel was palm oil, and the energy involved in growing, harvesting, processing and transport made it 10x worse than petrol in terms of fossil fuel usage.

They also pointed out what a complete waste of time the home wind turbines were, and laid into the nonsense that is carbon offsetting. And this was the pro-lobby.

[hyperD]

I have a TVR Tuscan sports car which back in 2002 got quite a few thumbs up, moreso in Europe than here.

Now there are more resentful faces than appealing and I'm wondering whether this is due to economic jealousy or the latest "chicken licken" craze that's inflicting the populace.

I run my business from home, cycle anywhere within 10 miles for shopping, nights out etc not for any green reasons but purely fitness. I hardly ever use the car but it makes it sweeter when I do.

I think one of the main reasons why someone would want to build a swimming pool in their garden is so not to share, for all intents and purposes, a giant commode with people that seem to think it's fine to shower and defecate in a swimming pool. Also, basic footcare seems to be amiss in these places.

I find it difficult to take some of this green stuff seriously. I'm all in for becoming energy efficient for cost reasons but I simply dispair when someone buys a solar panel thinking they're saving the planet when the payback time, at best, is 25 years.

I work in the Oil & Gas industry and see the political pressure on adopting biofuels. I'm privy to some info that's not available through the media and find it annoying that the following never get taking into account with these discussions:

How much deforestation (and burning) will be needed to produce the land mass to meet the demand for biofuel?

How much will it cost (both in additional cost and fossil fuel burning) to transport to the refineries? Methanol and to some extent ethanol is extremely corrosive and difficult to transport.

How much will it cost (both in additional cost and fossil fuel burning) to distill and refine?

How much agricultural land will be ditched for the more lucrative bio fuel?

What about where land becomes fallow over time through over intensive farming?

What about the massive use of pesticides and herbicides?

How much interest and additional cost will there be from Monsanto to produce GM crops to increase production?

What about the cost of changes to refineries to process ethanol?

What about the cost (both in additional cost and fossil fuel burning) equipment to harvest the corn?

Ethanol may raise levels of nitrogen oxides produced as gasoline emissions. Because of its lower energy content relative to gasoline, ethanol also reduces mileage per gallon.

Rather than pandering to some sandalista chest-beating, it's worth looking at the bigger picture. Your suspicions should be aroused purely through the fact that this current administration jumped on the bandwagon to generate a whole bunch of new taxes, without reducing any traditional ones. It's not the green chalice it's spun to be.

[Numptycorner]

Quite right too... Sports cars are functionally flawed, limited by number of seats and load carrying capability; they exist solely to pander to the (usually male) ego.

All cars should be limited to a maximum speed of 70 mph, have a minimum of four seats and only be capable of a 0-60 time in excess of 16 seconds

Welcome to the USSR comrade

[dang65]

Wake up you brain dead f***s, it is getting warmer, regardless of what you think is causing it, anything you do WONT make any difference.

If you're referring to me, I haven't said anything about global warming. As you say, that's pretty much inevitable now. The paper this morning had a thing about the Greenland ice shelf melting at a drastic rate (far faster than previous predictions by 'scaremongers'). If the whole ice shelf melts then (it said in the paper) sea levels worldwide would rise by 23 feet, which would drown whole countries, as well as cities like London. Even if it only rises by a tenth of that amount it will cause enormous destruction. So, yeah, we're all pretty much f***ed.

What I was moaning about was congestion and noise. Which is caused by people sitting on their own in cars for hours on end.

[Troll]

Toyota now officially produce no sports cars at all. They've just stopped production of the Celica and MR2. How krap is that.

Quite right too... Sports cars are functionally flawed, limited by number of seats and load carrying capability; they exist solely to pander to the (usually male) ego.

All cars should be limited to a maximum speed of 70 mph, have a minimum of four seats and only be capable of a 0-60 time in excess of 16 seconds

[Numptycorner]

Mmmmmmm... repaired one of those the other month.

but probably not off a 5 year old car

[XTC]

Toyota now officially produce no sports cars at all. They've just stopped production of the Celica and MR2. How krap is that.

[realityhack]

Jesus, save me from the middle class, hand wringing, apologising, pseudo-environMENTALIST, 'we-all-need-to-do-our-bit', no 'kin difference making w@nkers.
Wake up you brain dead f***s, it is getting warmer, regardless of what you think is causing it, anything you do WONT make any difference.
The Chinese are opening a new coal fired power station every month for the forseeable future. This will continue until fossil fuels run out, when things will revert to carbon neutral or fusion becomes viable.
Try to focus on things that matter = things you can actually do something about...

Had a bad start to the week, luke?
I saw a documentary recently which suggested fusion was possible if enough Helium 3 can be mined from the moon. Of course, it's totally reasonable to spend billions on a project like this instead of tackling energy efficiency at home.

[lukemg]

Jesus, save me from the middle class, hand wringing, apologising, pseudo-environMENTALIST, 'we-all-need-to-do-our-bit', no 'kin difference making w@nkers.
Wake up you brain dead f***s, it is getting warmer, regardless of what you think is causing it, anything you do WONT make any difference.
The Chinese are opening a new coal fired power station every month for the forseeable future. This will continue until fossil fuels run out, when things will revert to carbon neutral or fusion becomes viable.
Try to focus on things that matter = things you can actually do something about...

[VectraMan]

Don't Tesco's and the like offer free buses in some areas? Wouldn't hit the £5K/minute profit for Tesco would it?

You're probably right about that.

I'd like to know what the eco-mentalists think trains and busses run on. Oh that's right: fossil fuels. If they got their way and outlawed all cars, then would they then all turn on the polluting trains and busses next?

And unlike cars, trains and busses run all day even when nobody wants them. We could reduce "carbon" emissions by limiting public transport to rush hour only.

BTW I work at home 2 days a week, which means I'm being green. Okay, so I do 200 miles on each of the other 3 days in my 33 mpg car. Better yet, I have a 25mpg car which I drive just for fun, and best of all take to trackdays and drive as fast as possible round and round in circles using a couple of tanks of petrol to go nowhere at all.

I'm guessing Dang65 doesn't approve.

[ratewhore]

The local town centre Sommerfield here has just closed down, which is pretty much unthinkable. And it goes to show that even the old, poor, unemployable and single mothers can afford a car to drive to Tesco, Sainsbury or Morrisons instead.

Don't Tesco's and the like offer free buses in some areas? Wouldn't hit the £5K/minute profit for Tesco would it?

[VectraMan]

I'm sure I read that there are more families in the UK with two cars than families with no car at all.

The local town centre Sommerfield here has just closed down, which is pretty much unthinkable. And it goes to show that even the old, poor, unemployable and single mothers can afford a car to drive to Tesco, Sainsbury or Morrisons instead.

[ratewhore]

There is a school of thought that believes ultimately, western civilisation will return to localised living and working as fossil fuels dry up. That implies, as well as living and working in the same locality, sourcing all your needs locally.

So the death of the car (at least as we know it) would be a smaller issue than we believe it to be.

Of course, the unbelieveable part is an improvement in public transport...

[DodgyAgent]

Not really, but I do think that private cars are a massive luxury which everyone treats themselves to without a second thought. Look at it this way:

If you want to go swimming then you have a few options. You could build a private swimming pool in your back garden; you could take out membership of the local private health club; you could go to the local community leisure centre; or you could go and swim in the nearest river.

Walking or cycling is the equivalent of swimming in the nearest river; getting a bus or the train is like the leisure centre; using a taxi or first class on the train is like the private health club.

Running your own private car, or more than one, is like having a private swimming pool in your back garden.

I'm sure I read that there are more families in the UK with two cars than families with no car at all. People see car ownership as a normal fact of life, like having running water and electricity, and they throw a hissy fit if anyone makes any attempt to reduce the damage being done.

It made me laugh recently when there was a letter in our local paper complaining about the state of the car park at an NHS doctor's surgery in town. The people that complained must have only ever parked in the Tesco's car park or the council car park, which are both well maintained. If they'd ever cycled or walked around town they would be aware that every road is a churned up death trap of pot-holes and worn surfaces. They don't ever see that because they never get out of their cars, and they're so used to speed humps and bumping up on the kerb to park that they don't even register the state of the roads as they drive along.

I'm not allowed to use rude words on this forum, but think of a really bad one and that's what most car commuters are.

So let us extend this argument then.

Why dont we:

Share washing machines (or not use them at all and wash by hand down at the local river?)
live in an apartment that has simple basics (no washing machines) and no spare "wasted" space,
No gardens, just share "common" areas.
share earnings

where do we stop?

Patricia Hewitt, Gordon Brown and Tony Benn must just love people like you

[Numptycorner]

I bought mine from new in 2002. Apart from normal things wearing out like tyres and brake pads, the only thing that failed is the starter motor last year. I haven't even needed to replace a bulb since I bought it. I rest my case.

If it were a Toyota the starter motor wouldn't have failed