Why not murder?

[Maxamus]

should hang scum like this off lighting columns!

[DodgyAgent]

"Society is to blame?"

Which it is.

That does not mean that they should be excused. What it means is that those who were responsible for their upbringing (and I imagine that they were parent(s) who themselves came from disfuntional homes), are to blame.

My bet is that they and their parents were products of the state welfare system. i.e welfare dependent, no responsibilities, no understanding of responsibility, passed through a poor educational system and grew up ill equipped to function in society.

The socialists of course will view it as the fault of the rich, in not paying enough of their income in tax.

[andy]

Exactly why the judges don't give tough sentences ?
What are they afraid of ? Is it some govt target not to give tough sentences ?

[Kyajae]

"The difference between murder and manslaughter is, to be murder, the accused must have had the intention to kill, or seriously harm, the victim. Manslaughter usually arises from death where you act or omit to act in a way without the intent, or you're reckless or negligent in foreseeing that your actions or failure to act caused death."

But I would say beating the guy up and lobbing him in a river covers the first one. I fail to see how the CPS on this case went for manslaughter when it was obvious that they could hve got murder.

Exactly my point. Which implies a deal has been done pre-trial between the CPS and defence lawyers re extent of evidence. Like I said, no backbone in the criminal jstice system these days.

[BoredBloke]

"The difference between murder and manslaughter is, to be murder, the accused must have had the intention to kill, or seriously harm, the victim. Manslaughter usually arises from death where you act or omit to act in a way without the intent, or you're reckless or negligent in foreseeing that your actions or failure to act caused death."

But I would say beating the guy up and lobbing him in a river covers the first one. I fail to see how the CPS on this case went for manslaughter when it was obvious that they could hve got murder.

[Kyajae]

Why Manslaughter?

'Feral' boys jailed for killing

David Atherton was subjected to regular attacks
A pair of teenagers who repeatedly bullied and attacked a vulnerable man, before beating and tossing him into a river, have been jailed for life.
Craig Dodd, 17, and Ryan Palin, 15, pleaded guilty to the manslaughter of David Atherton, 40, who died last May.

Warrington Crown Court heard that Mr Atherton, who had learning difficulties and suffered alcoholism, was subjected to regular abuse by the pair.

The court heard Dodd and Palin described as "feral, wild and untamed".

Reporting restrictions, which would usually prevent the boys' names being published, were lifted by the judge.


If one were to search for a single adjective to describe their behaviour, it would be feral

Patrick Harrington QC
Prosecuting

Dodd and Palin were part of a teenage gang who preyed on vulnerable adults in Warrington, the court heard.

Mr Atherton, originally from Wigan, Greater Manchester, was forced into letting the gang use his flat to drink and smoke cannabis.

The teenagers subjected him to regular abuse and humiliation, which they called "terroring".

This included pouring drinks and food on to him, daubing his face with ink and make-up, burning his hair, urinating on him and vandalising his flat. It also included regular beatings.

Patrick Harrington QC, prosecuting, said: "The two defendants, often with others, were involved in a campaign of terror and violence directed at David Atherton.

"Ultimately - and almost inevitably - the result was that the two defendants killed Mr Atherton by beating him savagely and throwing him into the River Mersey."


Mr Atherton's beating was heard by a neighbour who tried to intervene

Mr Harrington described the lives of the two teenagers as "appalling".

He added: "If one were to search for a single adjective to describe their behaviour, it would be feral. They were wild and untamed."

The boys had been drinking and smoking cannabis when they visited Mr Atherton's flat in Howley, Warrington, on 8 May last year.

A neighbour heard them beating Mr Atherton, and invited him in, but he was led away by Dodd and Palin.

They later boasted to friends that they "winged him into the water", meaning they each held a leg and an arm then tossed him in.

Mr Justice Hodge sentenced Dodd and Palin to detention for life.

He told them: "Your conduct was reprehensible. You both treated Mr Atherton as a punch bag.

"What you did was not opportunistic. It was pre-meditated.

"It was a savage attack - cruel, brutal and vicious and on a very vulnerable man."

==================================================

If it was pre meditated, why wasn't it murder.

----------------------------------------------------------------

The difference between murder and manslaughter is, to be murder, the accused must have had the intention to kill, or seriously harm, the victim. Manslaughter usually arises from death where you act or omit to act in a way without the intent, or you're reckless or negligent in foreseeing that your actions or failure to act caused death.

(Law degree as well as being a numptey!)

This is another symptom of the calibre of some of the Judges we have these days.

Detention for life is meaningless. These scum will serve a minimum period. After which they only have to walk the walk and talk the talk to convince a bunch of wooly-headed social workers posing as probation officers that they're fit for parole. How do you think the two that killed Bulger managed to get off so light?

We have a criminal justice system with no backbone

[SallyAnne]

I think you have to be over 18 to be accused of murder dont you? I seem to remember the jamie Bulger kids getting manslaughter aswell (course, it's me, so I'm probably wrong!)

Edit: No, I was talking rubbish - they were tried for murder.
Who knows then - maybe they struck a deal? What was their defence?

[BoredBloke]

Why Manslaughter?

'Feral' boys jailed for killing

David Atherton was subjected to regular attacks
A pair of teenagers who repeatedly bullied and attacked a vulnerable man, before beating and tossing him into a river, have been jailed for life.
Craig Dodd, 17, and Ryan Palin, 15, pleaded guilty to the manslaughter of David Atherton, 40, who died last May.

Warrington Crown Court heard that Mr Atherton, who had learning difficulties and suffered alcoholism, was subjected to regular abuse by the pair.

The court heard Dodd and Palin described as "feral, wild and untamed".

Reporting restrictions, which would usually prevent the boys' names being published, were lifted by the judge.


If one were to search for a single adjective to describe their behaviour, it would be feral

Patrick Harrington QC
Prosecuting

Dodd and Palin were part of a teenage gang who preyed on vulnerable adults in Warrington, the court heard.

Mr Atherton, originally from Wigan, Greater Manchester, was forced into letting the gang use his flat to drink and smoke cannabis.

The teenagers subjected him to regular abuse and humiliation, which they called "terroring".

This included pouring drinks and food on to him, daubing his face with ink and make-up, burning his hair, urinating on him and vandalising his flat. It also included regular beatings.

Patrick Harrington QC, prosecuting, said: "The two defendants, often with others, were involved in a campaign of terror and violence directed at David Atherton.

"Ultimately - and almost inevitably - the result was that the two defendants killed Mr Atherton by beating him savagely and throwing him into the River Mersey."


Mr Atherton's beating was heard by a neighbour who tried to intervene

Mr Harrington described the lives of the two teenagers as "appalling".

He added: "If one were to search for a single adjective to describe their behaviour, it would be feral. They were wild and untamed."

The boys had been drinking and smoking cannabis when they visited Mr Atherton's flat in Howley, Warrington, on 8 May last year.

A neighbour heard them beating Mr Atherton, and invited him in, but he was led away by Dodd and Palin.

They later boasted to friends that they "winged him into the water", meaning they each held a leg and an arm then tossed him in.

Mr Justice Hodge sentenced Dodd and Palin to detention for life.

He told them: "Your conduct was reprehensible. You both treated Mr Atherton as a punch bag.

"What you did was not opportunistic. It was pre-meditated.

"It was a savage attack - cruel, brutal and vicious and on a very vulnerable man."

==================================================

If it was pre meditated, why wasn't it murder.