Reply to: Scotland's Independance

[Euro-commuter]

By 'the English' I gather you mean the Government.
The English people were asked if they wanted a 'Common Market', which obviously seemed like a good idea. The complete surrender to Brussels was never presented as an option.

I know. The irony is that the EEA was later invented for countries like Norway that wanted a Common Market but didn't want political union. It seems to me that it fits English (and indeed British) desires quite well.

[DodgyAgent]

Invade them with what DA?

we have plenty of suicide bombers they just need redirecting to north of th border

[wonderwaif]

At least the English are consistent: they don't believe that Scotland should be independent, and they don't believe that Britain should be independent!

By 'the English' I gather you mean the Government.
The English people were asked if they wanted a 'Common Market', which obviously seemed like a good idea. The complete surrender to Brussels was never presented as an option.

[shaunbhoy]

If Scotland left the Union and became a succesful nation full of riches we could always invade them again and do a bit of redistribution.

Invade them with what DA? A huge chunk of the armed forces is made up of Scots and besides, they are already far too busy killing assorted muslims in foreign climes at the behest of HMG.

[GlasgowBob]

One of the despairing traits of Scotland is the almost complete abscence of an entrepreneurial culture. If Scotland were to become independent then they may be shaken into creativity just as the Irish have done over the past 10 years. Ithink they are caught in the headlights of being dependent on English taxpayers money (which they quite rightly resent) when in actual fact they should not be dependent upon anyone.

I disagree with your comment on Scotland lacking an entrepreneurial culture. Surveys done a couple of years ago show Scotlands entrepreneurial activity is already alongside countries such as France, Germany, Spain and Ireland. Although there is always room for improvement and hopefully with or without independence this can grow

I agree to a certain extent to what you are saying about dependency. I think in a lot of ways Scotland feels like an employee of England but feel we could go limited!

Its got nothing to do with bad feeling against England - which there isn't - it's just that a lot of people want to prove that Scotland can go it alone and hopefully be better off (not necessarily financially) with an independent Scotland. I hope if it does happen Scotland can keep a special relationship with the rest of the UK and it's looked at as a positive move rather than any resentment from south of the border for breaking up the union.

This what my original comment was trying to get across. We are all looking for an adult discussion of the pros and cons for everyone but when you have a government and an opposition in westminster that can only say negative things about an independant Scotland which then feeds the media, the population and this board!

[DodgyAgent]

If Scotland left the Union and became a succesful nation full of riches we could always invade them again and do a bit of redistribution.

[Euro-commuter]

It would seem a bit strange to me for the Jocks to go on and on about independence, and then sell themselves to Brussels at the earliest opportunity.

At least the English are consistent: they don't believe that Scotland should be independent, and they don't believe that Britain should be independent!

[wonderwaif]

Speaking of the Irish, like them, if Scotland became independent they could join the EU off their own bat and qualify for several billion in grants. We would all be better off.

The only downside is that our government might volunteer to pay the lot themselves!

It would seem a bit strange to me for the Jocks to go on and on about independence, and then sell themselves to Brussels at the earliest opportunity.

[Euro-commuter]

au contraire - i think you'll find its actually scotland that subsidises england to the tune of £700 per person

How can that be, you ask? Because it is in the nature of these costs and cashflows that those that show "England subsidising Scotland" are visible; those that represent a net flow from Scotland to England are hidden in the "national" budget.

I believe that is true, but I think that we can discuss the issue sensibly without mentioning that: perhaps even more sensibly if we don't. Just as we can discuss it without the English claim that they subsidise Scotland. And without arguing about whose oil it might be.

It isn't really about any of those things. So the allegation that Scotland couldn't survive without England's subsidy doesn't scare me.

[mrdonuts]

au contraire - i think you'll find its actually scotland that subsidises england to the tune of £700 per person

[Troll]

Scotland's Independence


tch

I don't know what you're talking about

[mrdonuts]

leave before the bill arrives

alex salmonds not daft - he clearly understands scotland needs to get independence asap otherwise we will be sharing the bill for the london olympic farce

[wendigo100]

One of the despairing traits of Scotland is the almost complete abscence of an entrepreneurial culture. If Scotland were to become independent then they may be shaken into creativity just as the Irish have done over the past 10 years. Ithink they are caught in the headlights of being dependent on English taxpayers money (which they quite rightly resent) when in actual fact they should not be dependent upon anyone.

Speaking of the Irish, like them, if Scotland became independent they could join the EU off their own bat and qualify for several billion in grants. We would all be better off.

The only downside is that our government might volunteer to pay the lot themselves!

[Euro-commuter]

One of the despairing traits of Scotland is the almost complete abscence of an entrepreneurial culture. If Scotland were to become independent then they may be shaken into creativity just as the Irish have done over the past 10 years. Ithink they are caught in the headlights of being dependent on English taxpayers money (which they quite rightly resent) when in actual fact they should not be dependent upon anyone.

We face a terrible risk of agreeing here. In fact I'll steal your phrase (headlights) if you don't mind, I think it's very well put.

It almost follows automatically: if the place is only a dependent branch of the real organisation, then it's not going to be very go-ahead; and the people who are, are going to go ahead elsewhere. Scotland has the human material, it's just mostly not in Scotland.

After independence, Scotland may well be less well-off than England. But both will be better off than before, possibly in different ways.

PS and Salmond will be heading for an early retirement......

[DodgyAgent]

I haven't quite made my mind up but I think a lot of people in Scotland want to discuss the pros and cons properly.

It doesn't help when Tony Blair gives quotes like:
"I have to say, with great respect to Sir George, I regard it as pure self-indulgence."

"You talk to real businesses, talk to the types of people I have just been addressing, and look at the impact of separation on real businesses and real families.
"


This was after George Mathewson (former chairman of RBS) gave his backing to SNP. If the 5th largest bank in the world isn't a real business then what is?

One of the despairing traits of Scotland is the almost complete abscence of an entrepreneurial culture. If Scotland were to become independent then they may be shaken into creativity just as the Irish have done over the past 10 years. Ithink they are caught in the headlights of being dependent on English taxpayers money (which they quite rightly resent) when in actual fact they should not be dependent upon anyone.