Reply to: Capita receives a letter bomb

[ASB]

It is really a job for CPS to bring up charges for illegal discrimination of that kind.

There is a minor flaw in that. It is not illegal discrimination. All discrimination is legal except where it is outlawed - and there is not too much of that on the statue books.

[AtW]

I've also seen essential requirements for 'clean driving license' even though the job is desk based and doesn't involve travel or a company car.

It is really a job for CPS to bring up charges for illegal discrimination of that kind - say in the USA they have local electable chaps whose job is to do just this, here obviously police are not interested in that kind of thing and CPS won't do this on their own.

[oraclesmith]

Fair enough - they must have faced having so many people declaring speed tickets

Well no actually. Someone has recently done some research that indicates that a good proportion of people who have something to list in the offenses box would actually not bother to apply for the job/contract despite being suitably qualified and otherwise suitable. There is the impression that candidates will always get rejected if there is anything to declare.

I've also seen essential requirements for 'clean driving license' even though the job is desk based and doesn't involve travel or a company car.

[Buffoon]

There was a bloke on the telly a couple of months ago that made an interesting point about these CRB checks and having to admit to spent offenses.

Can’t quote him but his point was: during the course of many people’s lives they make mistakes, especially when young. Most get their lives back on track. We are also expected to work longer and the government want to get more people off benefits and into work. So why are they making it more difficult to get a job? The last thing someone in his forties needs, with all the other thing acting against him, is to be turned down for not admitting to being done for drug possession as a student or a fight they got into as a youngster.

This is just more examples of stupid people getting too risk adverse. They are more worried about their own careers than any threat someone is or the effect on their lives.

[AtW]

Fair enough - they must have faced having so many people declaring speed tickets that even on citizenship application they say you don't need to state it so long as you have fixed penalty rather than court decision, funny that their call center said it is best to still put them on app, so I did

IMO small scale speeding should not be a criminal offence, in fact any offence that does not carry prison sentence should be de-criminalised: lots of people use recreational drugs that are illegal, yet they have to declare speeding ticket, that ain't right

[ASB]

Yes, but mundane stuff like fixed penalty for speeding that you may have received 10 years ago is not exactly the kind of thing you will remember: if they want to check if you are a liar then they should use polygraph test.

Part of Mrs ASBs work involves people who have had an extended check. The panel tends to take a fairly dim view of difference between disclosure from the individual and disclosure from the CRB. However they do recognise that because of the differing status of the types that may be issued there is a certain amount of genuine confusion. This is the mundane stuff they are prepared to concede.

A *lot* of forms now use wording to the effect of whether you should include or exclude fixed penalties.

You also mentioned insurance. They generally ask the question "have you ever been convicted of an offence ......". Here you can legitimately answer NO provided the conviction is spent under the terms of the rehabilitation of offenders act.

[AtW]

Why ask about information they can (and will) get hold of easily when they process the application? Answer - to see if you're a liar !

Yes, but mundane stuff like fixed penalty for speeding that you may have received 10 years ago is not exactly the kind of thing you will remember: if they want to check if you are a liar then they should use polygraph test.

[oraclesmith]

but surely if you do get checked for stuff like SC then not telling about fixed penalty ticket received ages ago (when its spent - like 5 years after) won't count against you?

I'm sure it will. According to the application form I have here :-

"Have you ever been convicted, cautioned, summonsed or charged with any offence, or are you aware of any charges or summonses which may be brought against you? Failure to disclose such information may result in rejection.".......

"Note: by virtue of the rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (Exceptions) Order 1975, the provisions of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 do not apply to questions concerning convictions, cautions, charges, etc. You are therefore not entitled to withhold information about a previous conviction on the grounds that it is for other purposes spent under that Act."

Which means that when they do the CRB check (with Capita!) then you had better make sure it's 100% identical to what you put on the application form!

Why ask about information they can (and will) get hold of easily when they process the application? Answer - to see if you're a liar !

[EternalOptimist]

I have a theory, . Just picking your nose whilst driving could trigger this series of events !

I have amended my CV accordingly


Key Skills :

SQL 7 and greater
VB 6 and greater
MSACCESS all versions
ORACLE all versions
Nose picking, all colors and consistancies
including one inch living boogers

[AtW]

While technically it is a criminal conviction, in reality fixed penalty for stuff like speeding is nothing - on UK citizenship application they even say you don't have to report it in list of criminal convictions (so long as its fixed penalty rather than given in court), in some cases (like car insurance) not telling about that fixed ticket will certainly be a big deal, but surely if you do get checked for stuff like SC then not telling about fixed penalty ticket received ages ago (when its spent - like 5 years after) won't count against you?

I think around 20% of motorists now have at least 3 points on their licenses, few more years and this will surely raise to 30-35%.

[Lucy]

Really Happy Alexi

[DodgyAgent]

What's RHA? ".

Russian Homo Alert

[ASB]

What's RHA? Surely if you get fixed penalty for speeding it can't possibly count as proper "criminal conviction".

1) Rehabilitation of offenders act.
2) Yes. The ticket is a "conditional offer" - accepting it is the same as a guilty plea to the underlying offence. An endorsable fixed penalty ticket does NOT count as a criminal conviction - but this is not the same thing.

Note that minor matters like robbery which will soon result in a "conditional caution" do not require an acceptance of guilt. These do not become criminal convictions.

[AtW]

Where the RHA does apply then disclosure is never required, if the RHA doesn't then disclosure is theoretically required unless specifically not requested.

What's RHA? Surely if you get fixed penalty for speeding it can't possibly count as proper "criminal conviction".

[Buffoon]

They got the job and were at their desk a couple of years later when the firms security staff turn up and usher them off the premises! This then leads to long term unemployment (because no-one will employ an ex-offender who got fired from their last job for deception); relationship difficulties; divorce; serious alcohol and drug abuse; homelessness; anti-social behaviour; severe health problems; mental instability; street crime; attempted suicide; etc.

'ere! You been reading my CV, police and medical records? You are an Indian outsourcer and I claim my cinque squidlies.