Originally posted by Not So Wise
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Reply to: Hoaxley. Priceless
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Previously on "Hoaxley. Priceless"
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Originally posted by phonemonkeythats not the type of reference I'm talking about. I talking about a description of how they affected the team, their general attitude, performance, achievments etc - than just start dates and end dates.
2nd Problem: We don't trust you, when I first started out contracting (after first contract) I used to provide references (previous permie role and first contract) to whatever agent asked, guess what happened? Both people who were providing the references called me up and told me to never give their names again because they were sick and tired of agents calling them up and giving them the hard sell
So for last 9 years I have refused at any point to provide a single reference to an agent and only provided them direct to client after the position has been offered to me (and even then only been asked to do so once)
HR and their permie mentality need to get out of the contractor recruitment process because they only stuff it up
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Originally posted by TheFaqqerTry seeing who they have worked with rather than for - agent that got me my current job had a chat with me beforehand about where I was working, who with (found some common contacts) and then rang some of them before considering putting me forward for the role.
Nothing formal as a reference, but you might get a better feel - he's asked me about people that I've worked with that he has on the database, to see what they were like before putting the CV forward.
Formidable, faqqer! How often is there one born?
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Originally posted by The Lone GunmanConsidering I have spent a lot of time in Germany and it is illegal to write a bad reference there, how are you going to know.
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Originally posted by phonemonkeythats not the type of reference I'm talking about. I talking about a description of how they affected the team, their general attitude, performance, achievments etc - than just start dates and end dates.
But then I think you knew that really.
With regards to just sending off the cheapest so I make the highest margin - that's ideal as long as they can do the job of course.
Nothing formal as a reference, but you might get a better feel - he's asked me about people that I've worked with that he has on the database, to see what they were like before putting the CV forward.
Of course, it relies on contractor honesty - but why should that be better/worse than honesty from a client?
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Originally posted by phonemonkeythats not the type of reference I'm talking about. I talking about a description of how they affected the team, their general attitude, performance, achievments etc - than just start dates and end dates.
But then I think you knew that really.
With regards to just sending off the cheapest so I make the highest margin - that's ideal as long as they can do the job of course.
More and more in the UK managers are reluctant to write honest references.
I know a manager who wrote a glowing reference to get rid of someone, and a tulipe one to keep someone.
Many managers hate contractors so will only ever write "he was crap".
The only way ypou and your clients can be sure is by you engaging with the client and the contractor to provide the right person for the right role.
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Originally posted by phonemonkeythats not the type of reference I'm talking about. I talking about a description of how they affected the team, their general attitude, performance, achievments etc - than just start dates and end dates.
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Originally posted by phonemonkeythats not the type of reference I'm talking about. I talking about a description of how they affected the team, their general attitude, performance, achievments etc - than just start dates and end dates.
But then I think you knew that really.
With regards to just sending off the cheapest so I make the highest margin - that's ideal as long as they can do the job of course.
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Originally posted by meridianJust do what you always do - pick the three that want the lowest daily rate so you maximise your profits.
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thats not the type of reference I'm talking about. I talking about a description of how they affected the team, their general attitude, performance, achievments etc - than just start dates and end dates.
But then I think you knew that really.
With regards to just sending off the cheapest so I make the highest margin - that's ideal as long as they can do the job of course.
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Originally posted by phonemonkeyMy technical knowledge is of a very high standard, having on several courses related directly to my specialism, and I act as a 1st round of interview process for my clients.
The problem is the HR people that we have to deal with are not technical and therefore cannot always see who is best, and will often simply opt for the CV with the most buzz-words which is ineffective.
The more help we can give them the better – this is where a clear and frank reference that they can understand helps.
In terms of suggesting people are lying – surprise, surprise people often do. I have lost count of the times someone has initially claimed they could pick up loadrunner in a day or two as they are a fast learner and therefore deserve 500/day despite the fact they have never used an automated tool in their life.
I’m not saying all contractors lie but a lot do, as do agents admittedly, but enough do to make us wary.
Just do what you always do - pick the three that want the lowest daily rate so you maximise your profits.
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My technical knowledge is of a very high standard, having on several courses related directly to my specialism, and I act as a 1st round of interview process for my clients.
The problem is the HR people that we have to deal with are not technical and therefore cannot always see who is best, and will often simply opt for the CV with the most buzz-words which is ineffective.
The more help we can give them the better – this is where a clear and frank reference that they can understand helps.
In terms of suggesting people are lying – surprise, surprise people often do. I have lost count of the times someone has initially claimed they could pick up loadrunner in a day or two as they are a fast learner and therefore deserve 500/day despite the fact they have never used an automated tool in their life.
I’m not saying all contractors lie but a lot do, as do agents admittedly, but enough do to make us wary.
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As a proper business I give references in the same way as other IT companies. Through case studies on my website with the odd quote from client management.
HTH
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References Pre-Submission
http://www.jobserve.com/W83B3BD9F6611EB1F.job
What absolute bollocks!
This mob were once (1997) not too bad.
Avoid like the plague now.
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Originally posted by expatAgents don't add value: they say that they add value, and charge for the value that they say they have added.
A much better racket than being clever and educated and having 10-20 years experience of useful skills!
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