Reply to: Pension Autoenrolment

[SueEllen]

If you were to fall terminally ill prior to the age of 55 I think you'd be considered unfortunate. I understand the point of pension plans and I am not arguing that they aren't necessary. What I am saying is the government should've just added 8% on to employers and employees NIC's if that's what they wanted to achieve and been transparent about it.

Opting out of auto-enrollment will not be an option forever.

Many people will agree with you but this government's thinking is that the private sector must take care of everything.

[mattfx]

No pension scheme allows you to withdraw your contributions until you hit the early retirement age threshold, which is currently 55. That's the entire point of pensions.

Any other benefits are due to what the other policies the employer has agreed with the provider.

If you were to fall terminally ill prior to the age of 55 I think you'd be considered unfortunate. I understand the point of pension plans and I am not arguing that they aren't necessary. What I am saying is the government should've just added 8% on to employers and employees NIC's if that's what they wanted to achieve and been transparent about it.

Opting out of auto-enrollment will not be an option forever.

[mattfx]

Those cases you mention might be unfair but they are a small overall cost on NHS.

The real cost is that people live longer...

You're not wrong. But let's be clear; the NHS' real problem is Jeremy Hunt.

[SueEllen]

I'm also fairly certain that since then there have been a healthy number of increases in NIC's and tax, along with the increase in age of which you can retire to compensate for that. I don't disagree that generally speaking we are living longer, however no-one should be in a position to rob someone of funds they could use for their own private pension, which they can withdraw if they find themselves with the most unbearable news you could ever hope to receive in your life.

I will predicate that with I have done no more than ten minutes of research and so far cannot find anything that says you can withdraw your pension contributions under this new auto enrollment scheme, which would lead me to assume that you cannot do it.

No pension scheme allows you to withdraw your contributions until you hit the early retirement age threshold, which is currently 55. That's the entire point of pensions.

Any other benefits are due to what the other policies the employer has agreed with the provider.

[Hobosapien]

What we need is a two tier system...for interest rates. One higher rate tier paying decent amount for savings and investments to mitigate need for higher pension contributions out of stagnant wages, and one lower rate for debt. Simple.

As it is, the younger you are the less confident you can be of the rules around pensions benefiting you when you come to need it. Yet the younger you are the more you should be able to take advantage of long term investments via compound interest, if interest rates were somewhere near historical average.

[SueEllen]

Entitlement to NHS treatment is determined by residency, not NIC contributions.

I looked it up and it said traditionally NICs were for that.

Obviously the system has changed.

[rl4engc]

Auto-enrolement is an example of economic nudge theory at work.

The opt-out rate is very low. It is guessed that people will not start to opt-out of them until probably next year when the contribution goes up to a percentage amount that they can see makes a difference to their take home pay.

Yes but then they see that their £2000 into a pension pot is now worth 9% more after a year they'll soon realise it's better than all salary coming out after tax and all spare cash going in a 1% Cash ISA. Obviously you can't access a pension but that's what S&S ISA's are for. (£10k buffer zone in cash obviously).

[AtW]

Then why is health tourism such a problem? Many people from Europe come here to receive treatment for something and bugger off home. Pretty sure there was a case where someone came from Africa so have a complicated birth of triplets because her home nation wanted to charge her an obscene amount of money to ensure the birth went smoothly. As soon as she was able bodied her and her family upped and left without paying the bill. The NHS will treat anyone in need who walks in, regardless of NIC contributions.

Those cases you mention might be unfair but they are a small overall cost on NHS.

The real cost is that people live longer...

[AtW]

Entitlement to NHS treatment is determined by residency, not NIC contributions.

Not after the new "free trade" deal with USA is done after hard Brexit - under those terms it would be unfair competition with the US private health companies...

[mattfx]

we all know it's paid from general taxation but NICs just gives your entitlement to it.

Then why is health tourism such a problem? Many people from Europe come here to receive treatment for something and bugger off home. Pretty sure there was a case where someone came from Africa so have a complicated birth of triplets because her home nation wanted to charge her an obscene amount of money to ensure the birth went smoothly. As soon as she was able bodied her and her family upped and left without paying the bill.

The NHS will treat anyone in need who walks in, regardless of NIC contributions.

[mattfx]

When pensions were first planned you were only suppose to live about 7 years on one then peg it. Unfortunately in general those who were born during the war and the baby boomers have lived too fecking long.

Luckily for the economy those who are under 30 are fat lazy feckers who have been force fed sugar and breathed loads of pollution so they will keel over before claim their pensions or only live a few years on them, like how pensions were originally planned.

I'm also fairly certain that since then there have been a healthy number of increases in NIC's and tax, along with the increase in age of which you can retire to compensate for that. I don't disagree that generally speaking we are living longer, however no-one should be in a position to rob someone of funds they could use for their own private pension, which they can withdraw if they find themselves with the most unbearable news you could ever hope to receive in your life.

I will predicate that with I have done no more than ten minutes of research and so far cannot find anything that says you can withdraw your pension contributions under this new auto enrollment scheme, which would lead me to assume that you cannot do it.

[northernladyuk]

No it is specifically for addition pension to the state one - so not NICs. NICs is for your benefits entitlement, including state pension, and the NHS*


*Yes we all know it's paid from general taxation but NICs just gives your entitlement to it.

Entitlement to NHS treatment is determined by residency, not NIC contributions.

[SueEllen]

I do agree with others - auto enrollment is just another stealth tax that we will be unlikely to see the benefit of. The chances of someone my age getting cancer and pegging out before i'm able to receive my state pension is getting higher and higher with the rising age you become eligible for your pension and the continual increase in likelihood you will get cancer in some form.

When pensions were first planned you were only suppose to live about 7 years on one then peg it. Unfortunately in general those who were born during the war and the baby boomers have lived too fecking long.

Luckily for the economy those who are under 30 are fat lazy feckers who have been force fed sugar and breathed loads of pollution so they will keel over before claim their pensions or only live a few years on them, like how pensions were originally planned.

[SueEllen]

They are a massive mess. Like you I also switched off halfway through the conversation when it got to running deficit amounts and percentages and... zZZzzzZzz.

I do agree with others - auto enrollment is just another stealth tax that we will be unlikely to see the benefit of. The chances of someone my age getting cancer and pegging out before i'm able to receive my state pension is getting higher and higher with the rising age you become eligible for your pension and the continual increase in likelihood you will get cancer in some form.

There is no way to retrieve your state pension if you are terminally ill (I tried when my mum was given a few months to live and wanted to do some stuff) - you get a £2,000 payment. That's it. Oh, sorry, you also get some Disability Living Allowance, which take months to arrange. So yeah - worthless. I doubt the government will do ANYTHING to address that, despite contributing your 8% to a pension pot for however many years.

They could at least be a little more transparent about it and not treat us like idiots.

Private pensions you can get at 55 though they want to change that to 10 years before retirement. If you peg it before that time you can get all/part of the pot paid out to a spouse or other dependants.

Not sure what the rules are for auto-enrolement pensions, but some employers have always had their own pension schemes that beat the minimum standard of auto-enrolement.

[mattfx]

Local government pensions are a mess.

you can't say as a blanket rule they are all going to implode.

They are a massive mess. Like you I also switched off halfway through the conversation when it got to running deficit amounts and percentages and... zZZzzzZzz.

I do agree with others - auto enrollment is just another stealth tax that we will be unlikely to see the benefit of. The chances of someone my age getting cancer and pegging out before i'm able to receive my state pension is getting higher and higher with the rising age you become eligible for your pension and the continual increase in likelihood you will get cancer in some form.

There is no way to retrieve your state pension if you are terminally ill (I tried when my mum was given a few months to live and wanted to do some stuff) - you get a £2,000 payment. That's it. Oh, sorry, you also get some Disability Living Allowance, which takes months to arrange. So yeah - worthless. I doubt the government will do ANYTHING to address that, despite contributing your 8% to a pension pot for however many years.

Even the extraction of her private pension was a painful and time consuming process.

They could at least be a little more transparent about it and not treat us like idiots.