Reply to: Jacob Rees-Mogg announces baby Sixtus

[northernladyuk]

Yeah, but Latin grad!

Not directly transferable but good training for solving difficult problems. And for pedantry.

[The_Equalizer]

Where's the fun in that?

Yeah, but latin grad!

[Gibbon]

And number, you cretin.

Accepted

[northernladyuk]

If only you'd stated that in your first reply.

Where's the fun in that?

[northernladyuk]

Feck me, an article talking about archaic usage of the definitive article can't get theirs right. Hoi is a Greek word for the, there being 24 variations of it depending on gender and declension.

And number, you cretin.

[The_Equalizer]

It is more precise to define your view as prescriptive grammar than traditionalist. As a Latin graduate, I don't much care for prescriptive grammar, as it attempts to apply rules from highly structured languages such as Latin into English, which is much more flexible. Other annoying prescriptive grammar rules include the forbidding of split infinitives and prepositions at the end of sentences. That is the kind of English up with which I will not put.

I'm not saying that it is wrong to omit 'the' if you choose, but there is no basis for correcting use of 'the'. Prescriptive grammar has no standing above other descriptive grammar.

Presumably, you would insist on removing the word 'the' from the sentence: 'I brought the alcohol to the last picnic, so this time it is your turn.'

If only you'd stated that in your first reply.

[northernladyuk]

I must be a traditionalist:

"Usage

Hoi is the Greek word for the, and the phrase hoi polloi means ‘the many.’ This has led some traditionalists to insist that hoi polloi should not be used in English with the, since that would be to state the word the twice. But, once established in English, expressions such as hoi polloi are typically treated as fixed units and are subject to the rules and conventions of English. Evidence shows that use with the has now become an accepted part of standard English usage: they kept to themselves, away from the hoi polloi (rather than away from hoi polloi). Hoi polloi is sometimes used incorrectly to mean ‘upper class’—that is, the exact opposite of its normal meaning. It seems likely that the confusion arose by association with the similar-sounding but otherwise unrelated word hoity-toity"

hoi polloi - Oxford Dictionary

It is more precise to define your view as prescriptive grammar than traditionalist. As a Latin graduate, I don't much care for prescriptive grammar, as it attempts to apply rules from highly structured languages such as Latin into English, which is much more flexible. Other annoying prescriptive grammar rules include the forbidding of split infinitives and prepositions at the end of sentences. That is the kind of English up with which I will not put.

I'm not saying that it is wrong to omit 'the' if you choose, but there is no basis for correcting use of 'the'. Prescriptive grammar has no standing above other descriptive grammar.

Presumably, you would insist on removing the word 'the' from the sentence: 'I brought the alcohol to the last picnic, so this time it is your turn.'

[Gibbon]

I must be a traditionalist:

"Usage

Hoi is the Greek word for the,
hoi polloi - Oxford Dictionary

Feck me, an article talking about archaic usage of the definitive article can't get theirs right. Hoi is a Greek word for the, there being 24 variations of it depending on gender and declension.

[The_Equalizer]

Except it is consistent with other English loan words such as alcohol where al is the definitive article. We don't say the the cohol do we?

I must be a traditionalist:

"Usage

Hoi is the Greek word for the, and the phrase hoi polloi means ‘the many.’ This has led some traditionalists to insist that hoi polloi should not be used in English with the, since that would be to state the word the twice. But, once established in English, expressions such as hoi polloi are typically treated as fixed units and are subject to the rules and conventions of English. Evidence shows that use with the has now become an accepted part of standard English usage: they kept to themselves, away from the hoi polloi (rather than away from hoi polloi). Hoi polloi is sometimes used incorrectly to mean ‘upper class’—that is, the exact opposite of its normal meaning. It seems likely that the confusion arose by association with the similar-sounding but otherwise unrelated word hoity-toity"

hoi polloi - Oxford Dictionary

[northernladyuk]

Repeating yourself doesn't mean you're correct.

No, but I am.

[Gibbon]

"The the many". Okay then.

Except it is consistent with other English loan words such as alcohol where al is the definitive article. We don't say the the cohol do we?

[The_Equalizer]

A little education is dangerous, no?

Repeating yourself doesn't mean you're correct.

[northernladyuk]

"The the many". Okay then.

A little education is dangerous, no?

[The_Equalizer]

'The hoi polloi' is correct.

A little education is dangerous, no?

"The the many". Okay then.

[northernladyuk]

It's hoi polloi, not "the hoi polloi".

'The hoi polloi' is correct.

A little education is dangerous, no?