Reply to: Brexit DOOM™: No flight zone

[chopper]

There are nine freedoms:

1) The right to overfly someone else's airspace
2) The right to do technical things (e.g. refuel or maintain) in another country without passengers or cargo getting on or off
3) The right for an airline based in country A to fly from country A to country B
4) The right for an airline based in country A to fly from country B back to country A
5) The right for an airline based in country A to fly to/from country A to country B and then to country C (think BA flying London - Singapore - Sydney)
6) The right for an airline based in country A to fly from B to A to C (e.g. Emirates flying London to Dubai to Sydney, whilst allowing passengers to be ticketed from London to Sydney)
7) The right for an airline based in country A to fly from B to C (e.g. Easyjet operating a flight from Paris to Moscow)
8) The right for an airline based in country A to fly to country B and then onwards to another airport in B, thus allowing an airline to operate a domestic sector in a foreign country.
9) The right for an airline based in country A to fly a domestic flight in country B without an onward flight back to their own country (slightly different to 8).

As it stands, for the most part, the EU is 'one country'. An airline based anywhere in the EU can fly from anywhere in the EU to anywhere else in the EU (think Ryanair flying from Stansted to Amsterdam).

Given the EU - US open skies agreement, an EU airline can fly from elsewhere in the EU to outside the EU - think Norwegian flying from London to USA.

After Brexit it is inconceivable that we wont allow EU airlines to fly into the UK, and that UK airlines wont be allowed to fly to the EU. What may not be allowed is for an EU airline to fly from the UK to the USA. And a UK airline may not be allowed to fly within the EU (only UK to EU) or from EU to outside the EU (Easyjet to fly from inside the EU Common Aviation Area to somewhere else outside the ECAA).

But then there is another pitfall. The rights for UK airlines to fly UK to USA is currently covered by the EU-US open skies agreement. After Brexit, without a deal, then BA or Virgin may not be able to fly UK - US until a new UK-US bilateral agreement is in place. This is a far more 'real' issue than Ryanair flying from the UK to the EU (on the basis that it is an EU airline).

However, Israel, Jordan and Morocco - all non EU countries - are all part of the ECAA. So it is entirely likely, IMHO, that the UK will remain in the European Common Aviation Area and therefore nothing will change. Ryanair will still operate UK flights. BA (a subsidiary of IAG, a Spanish company) can still operate domestic UK flights and flights from UK to outside the ECAA.

It would be painful any other way. We probably don't want to revert back to Bermuda II rules (the one which regulates only 2 UK and 2 US airlines can fly between Heathrow or Gatwick and the USA and only to certain airports) which existed before the EU-US open skies agreement.

I think there are still some UK specific bilateral agreements with other nations.

[Mordac]

Yes but all the usual Ryanair customers will be sitting next to you on your posh airline.

I doubt it. The worst I have experienced on the "posh airlines" is the business peeps who insist on turning their phones on as soon as the plane gets below about 1000 feet, and therefore in signal range, so they can get that all-important email. A phone got slightly damaged, and I was never prosecuted, shall we just leave it there?

[VectraMan]

I frankly don't care - I've never flown Ryanair (the wife has, she really didn't enjoy the "experience") mainly because I'm a teeny bit suspicious as to how much of the £29.99 fare actually goes into airline maintenance. I can't even get a return to Reading on the train for that, at least not at any time which is actually useful, so I'll pass on Ryanair, thanks.

Yes but all the usual Ryanair customers will be sitting next to you on your posh airline.

[Mordac]

What do you think will happen with prices on your favourite airlines once Ryanair is out of business?

I frankly don't care - I've never flown Ryanair (the wife has, she really didn't enjoy the "experience") mainly because I'm a teeny bit suspicious as to how much of the £29.99 fare actually goes into airline maintenance. I can't even get a return to Reading on the train for that, at least not at any time which is actually useful, so I'll pass on Ryanair, thanks.

[squarepeg]

Berlin and Paris are outside of the EU?

Have you been sniffing squirrel poo again?

Well, if you give London Ashford Airport a nudge... it may end up on the other side of the channel and be called... London Calais Airport maybe?

[squarepeg]

Giving the fact that Ryanair is mostly used by poor E.Europe immigrants, this news is more of a Brexit Boom™

It's used by all income groups from E. Europe and those from the "proper" Europe, because budget airlines are often the only ones that fly to airports other than the capital cities of E. Europe.

[Mordac]

Aren't BA owned by IAG though which is based in the EU

Yes, we've been through that.

[diseasex]

What do you think will happen with prices on your favourite airlines once Ryanair is out of business?

It doesn't work with nationalists. They will say they are happy paying twice for easyjet and BA

[AtW]

Once they're forced out of business by Brexit

What do you think will happen with prices on your favourite airlines once Ryanair is out of business?

[The Spartan]

We did this a couple of weeks back. IIRC Ryanair may still have to ditch some UK shareholders to ensure it's majority EU owned to qualify, and there were question marks over Easyjet too.

The issue is where they're based. BA can fly from Heathrow to anywhere in Europe, but they wouldn't be able to operate a service from Paris to Berlin for example, only EU carriers would be allowed to do that. And EU carriers wouldn't have a problem flying to and from the UK. The big problem for RyanAir is if they're based at Stansted they can't fly between other EU airports.

I think.

Aren't BA owned by IAG though which is based in the EU

[barrydidit]

I went on a Ryanair flight once. It was like some form of sensory deprivation for 3 hours. Once they're forced out of business by Brexit they can put their planes to good use torturing ISIS persons by flying them round for a few hours and selling them tat.

[sal]

Giving the fact that Ryanair is mostly used by poor E.Europe immigrants, this news is more of a Brexit Boom™

[Mordac]

So, to sum up what we've learned so far:
1: Ryanair don't know what they're talking about.
2: The Graun are so gullible / desperate for a bad-news Brexit story, they'll run with it anyway, even though a tiny bit of "research" will prove the "story" to be complete bollocks.
3: AtW is hovering over the refresh button, waiting for the next Brexit DOOM™ story to appear, and at no point does he engage the mental capacity (insert your own joke here) to ask himself whether it has any actual merit whatsoever.

I think we're done on this one. Next.

[VectraMan]

They could fly people to new airports just outside of EU border and call them Berlin/Paris airports...

Please board the Courtesy Bus for transport to the terminal. Journey time: 17 hours.

Slightly clearer:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...e-major-routes

[AtW]

Berlin and Paris are outside of the EU?

They will just spell them with Cyrillic letters: е and а - looks the same, but totally different place...