Reply to: The real reason for bremainer moans

[The_Equalizer]

Yes the "evil" EU will force RoI to enforce it's border with a non-EU state - UK. So it's either a border between RoI and NI, or some kind of special zone status for NI and border between NI and the rest of the UK. None of this is desirable, but if no free movement and free trade deal is signed with the EU it is inevitable. UK wanted sovereignty and control of it's borders back, EU wants to control its borders too.

I wasn't suggesting the EU is evil, just that it would only be on their instance that common ground can't be found between RoI and the UK. No one on either side is interested in a 'border'.

[The_Equalizer]

Yes the "evil" EU will force RoI to enforce it's border with a non-EU state - UK. So it's either a border between RoI and NI, or some kind of special zone status for NI and border between NI and the rest of the UK. None of this is desirable, but if no free movement and free trade deal is signed with the EU it is inevitable. UK wanted sovereignty and control of it's borders back, EU wants to control its borders too.

There's been a Common Travel Area between the UK and RoI for nearly 100 years. That's not going to change. There might, just be, a customs border. For those that remember such a thing I understand it wasn't such a big anyway. The only danger I see would be from those who have ulterior motives, namely Sinn Fein, who might try and force a poll on unity. Given the bad feeling that such things obviously cause (!) I would suggest this is the real risk to peace in Northern Ireland.

[sal]

No one, be it political parties, either governments or the people, want any kind of border between NI and the Republic. So who is going to force this? The EU? Any vote on unification would be a sectarian head count in Northern Ireland. The only anomaly would be a percentage of those who would very probably vote for a UI with all things being equal not doing so for fear of loss of jobs/prosperity.

I also forgot to mention the Common Travel Area within the British Isles.

Yes the "evil" EU will force RoI to enforce it's border with a non-EU state - UK. So it's either a border between RoI and NI, or some kind of special zone status for NI and border between NI and the rest of the UK. None of this is desirable, but if no free movement and free trade deal is signed with the EU it is inevitable. UK wanted sovereignty and control of it's borders back, EU wants to control its borders too.

[The_Equalizer]

Someone elected SNP in Scotland, someone voted 60% remain in EU in Scotland. It wasn't the SNP party members alone.

There is no (workable) way to keep border free Ireland, without freedom of movement with the EU (regardless of what the Gov is peddling). Last time i checked large portion of the Brexiteers voted leave to get rid of the free movement and it's high on the negotiation agenda, so someone is getting fooked, remains to be seen who.

Reinstating the border in NI will swing the scales heavily towards Irish unification, will it be enough is not clear, but either way it will increase the tension in a historically volatile (literally) region.

Of course none of this was in the referendum brochures and the Remain campaign was to sure of themselves to point it out clearly, otherwise it might have changed some votes (in undesirable direction).

Let's face it the UK politicians can only win from the power grab that is Brexit, they don't cares about the UK public or the country itself. Deregulation, monopolies, GMO, invasion of privacy here we come.

No one, be it political parties, either governments or the people, want any kind of border between NI and the Republic. So who is going to force this? The EU? Any vote on unification would be a sectarian head count in Northern Ireland. The only anomaly would be a percentage of those who would very probably vote for a UI with all things being equal not doing so for fear of loss of jobs/prosperity.

I also forgot to mention the Common Travel Area within the British Isles.

[sal]

£700 BN+ budget ? Really?

I know that wikipedia is not the most trustworthy source of information but cba looking for official documents:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_U...Kingdom_budget

[Antman]

With a budget of £700bn+ I doubt that the £8bn saved from the EU will make much of a dent,

Time to lay off the kool aid and face reality.

£700 BN+ budget ? Really?

[sal]

For Scotland you mean SNP.

As for NI, the only real threat to peace would be poll on Irish unification. A poll which is a waste of time anyway and no one other than Sinn Fein is asking for.

Someone elected SNP in Scotland, someone voted 60% remain in EU in Scotland. It wasn't the SNP party members alone.

There is no (workable) way to keep border free Ireland, without freedom of movement with the EU (regardless of what the Gov is peddling). Last time i checked large portion of the Brexiteers voted leave to get rid of the free movement and it's high on the negotiation agenda, so someone is getting fooked, remains to be seen who.

Reinstating the border in NI will swing the scales heavily towards Irish unification, will it be enough is not clear, but either way it will increase the tension in a historically volatile (literally) region.

Of course none of this was in the referendum brochures and the Remain campaign was to sure of themselves to point it out clearly, otherwise it might have changed some votes (in undesirable direction).

Let's face it the UK politicians can only win from the power grab that is Brexit, they don't cares about the UK public or the country itself. Deregulation, monopolies, GMO, invasion of privacy here we come.

[sasguru]

I don't live in these areas and i didn't call the people living there stupid, just lazy and naive.

I blame the welfare state for the infantilisation of much of Britain.
Welfare states only work in certain duty-bound cultures like Germany or Japan.
That's why the Yanks resist it so much. Maybe they're right.

[meridian]

And so now we can address these issues rather than hiding behind a load of EU funding.

It will be difficult I admit - but things worth doing often are

One of the reason many people voted brexit was so we could look at the UK and fix what is broken.

You seem to have trouble getting it through your head, that the UK didn't need to Brexit to look at and fix what was broken within the UK. Nothing the EU has done for the poorer regions of the UK has been on the basis of "we're doing it, you carry on doing nothing".

[sasguru]

I take it you live in one of these areas? With respect, these people aren't stupid.

With respect they are. Because voting for Brexit is likely to make them poorer.
It's just a statistical fact that 50% of the population are of under average intelligence.
WHich logically means that immigration isn't going to stop anytime soon in a knowledge economy like the UK.

[The_Equalizer]

With a budget of £700bn+ I doubt that the £8bn saved from the EU will make much of a dent, especially since said poor regions were actually net receivers of EU funds. And the Government has not made any commitment to at least match the existing levels of funding, let alone increase it.

Yeah, right, proceeding with Article 50 based on marginal vote in an advisory referendum, that didn't present the public with even half of the facts and consequences of leaving, under the banner of false claims like "£350m/week to the NHS" and "Net migration in 10'000s". Not having a clue what the impact of "no deal" will be. Antagonising the Scots even further and threatening the piece in NI by potential border reinstatement. Looks like a good start for fixing what is broken in the UK...

Time to lay off the kool aid and face reality.

For Scotland you mean SNP.

As for NI, the only real threat to peace would be poll on Irish unification. A poll which is a waste of time anyway and no one other than Sinn Fein is asking for.

[sal]

And so now we can address these issues rather than hiding behind a load of EU funding.

It will be difficult I admit - but things worth doing often are

One of the reason many people voted brexit was so we could look at the UK and fix what is broken.

With a budget of £700bn+ I doubt that the £8bn saved from the EU will make much of a dent, especially since said poor regions were actually net receivers of EU funds. And the Government has not made any commitment to at least match the existing levels of funding, let alone increase it.

Yeah, right, proceeding with Article 50 based on marginal vote in an advisory referendum, that didn't present the public with even half of the facts and consequences of leaving, under the banner of false claims like "£350m/week to the NHS" and "Net migration in 10'000s". Not having a clue what the impact of "no deal" will be. Antagonising the Scots even further and threatening the piece in NI by potential border reinstatement. Looks like a good start for fixing what is broken in the UK...

Time to lay off the kool aid and face reality.

[original PM]

approx isn't a word, it's an abbreviation

Ha

irs

[sal]

I take it you live in one of these areas? With respect, these people aren't stupid.

I don't live in these areas and i didn't call the people living there stupid, just lazy and naive.

[original PM]

They don't have fook all - they have fat benefits that disincentivize them to get off their asses. Said benefits are provided by the UK Government, let's see for how long though, so they have something to lose.

What EU did for these areas might not have worked, but it was still more than what the UK did. This is one of the good sides of being EU member - Despite UK being net contributor to the EU coffers, the EU is pouring funds to poorest regions in EU as a whole disregarding that said poorest regions are in a major contributor like the UK. Acting as a check against own government neglect, this will no longer exist.

EU Membership in no way prevented the UK Government to work towards investing and enrichment of these poor regions. What makes you think this will change after leaving the EU?

The gov has these poor regions right, where they want them to be - easily manipulatable electorate, ready to cast their populist vote.

And so now we can address these issues rather than hiding behind a load of EU funding.

It will be difficult I admit - but things worth doing often are

One of the reason many people voted brexit was so we could look at the UK and fix what is broken.