Reply to: Small Claims Court - Anyone used it?

[Safe Collections]

You need to pay £2K to do this.

And already being 3.5K down you need to decide whether it is worth it.

It should also be noted that winding up a company does not guarantee the director will be disqualified.

[SueEllen]

I wonder whether in a situation like that you couldn't have applied for a winding up order against his company at the outset and tried to have him disqualified as a director in future.

You need to pay £2K to do this.

And already being 3.5K down you need to decide whether it is worth it.

[OwlHoot]

Willapp, I've had a very similar experience to yourself in the SCC.

We're still owed about £3.5k, website was finished, went live, then he turned round and said he didnt have the money to pay us....then claimed there were problems and had to pay somebody else to fix the work and was claiming that back from us, but the invoice and other bits of evidence provided and signed by a Director of this other firm who "fixed" our work as evidence of his "loss" had been shutdown months ago AND he hadnt finished paying them either....so the judge roasted him for that.

We fired the CCJ off to High Court to enforce but his company assets were "a printer and a laptop".

The best thing we did was pay for a brief to represent us on the day, otherwise it would have been a nightmare.

I wonder whether in a situation like that you couldn't have applied for a winding up order against his company at the outset and tried to have him disqualified as a director in future.

[Epiphone]

For all the people saying to go to court straight away: that isn't the best thing to do. The courts take a dim view of them being used as leverage.

If you're taking someone to small claims then the courts want to see you've tried everything else and this really is a last resort. You should at the least be exhausting the internal complaints process, showing you're willing to go to mediation etc.

If your process is "lol i want money or small claims lulz" you will very likely lose your case.

[SueEllen]

Someone in my family ran a business where non-payment was a constant hazard. He eventually gave up spending money to take people to court because, as you say, getting someone to pay is much harder then getting judgement against them. The usual best case was getting a court order for them to pay £5 a week which of course they pay once or twice then stop. Then you have to go back to court.

However, if you are in dispute with any sort of large or national company, that's not going to be an issue.

But I thought I'd chime in with my anecdote anyway

Safer Collections always say check a person or company has assets before you take them to court.

And sometimes using them to recover the debt is better.

Though I've taken someone to court to ensure they got a CCJ so they wouldn't be so keen to rip others off.

[Platypus]

In my one experience of SCC getting a judgement is one thing, enforcing payment on the CCJ is quite another.

Willapp, I've had a very similar experience to yourself in the SCC.

Someone in my family ran a business where non-payment was a constant hazard. He eventually gave up spending money to take people to court because, as you say, getting someone to pay is much harder then getting judgement against them. The usual best case was getting a court order for them to pay £5 a week which of course they pay once or twice then stop. Then you have to go back to court.

However, if you are in dispute with any sort of large or national company, that's not going to be an issue.

But I thought I'd chime in with my anecdote anyway

[SueEllen]

I always send an empty envelope recorded delivery, and then I can prove I sent documentation that I didn't actually send.

So you send 2-5 of them then?

[garethevans1986]

Willapp, I've had a very similar experience to yourself in the SCC.

We're still owed about £3.5k, website was finished, went live, then he turned round and said he didnt have the money to pay us....then claimed there were problems and had to pay somebody else to fix the work and was claiming that back from us, but the invoice and other bits of evidence provided and signed by a Director of this other firm who "fixed" our work as evidence of his "loss" had been shutdown months ago AND he hadnt finished paying them either....so the judge roasted him for that.

We fired the CCJ off to High Court to enforce but his company assets were "a printer and a laptop".

The best thing we did was pay for a brief to represent us on the day, otherwise it would have been a nightmare.

[northernladyuk]

While you don't have to it is better to write to the retailer when contacting them and use recorded delivery, that way if you go to court they can't wiggle out of what they said. In addition in my experience of complaining if you do this it never reaches the court room.

Also as ready stated tell them in the letter what you plan to do and what legislation they have broken.

I always send an empty envelope recorded delivery, and then I can prove I sent documentation that I didn't actually send.

[Willapp]

In my one experience of SCC getting a judgement is one thing, enforcing payment on the CCJ is quite another. Myself and a friend were owed £3k for some website design work we did for a local company, the owner completely messed us about after getting involved half way through, then ended up at the end saying he didn't want it anymore. Luckily we had lots of evidence, took him to court and it was quite satisfying watching the judge give him a roasting when he tried to suggest he was entitled to cancel it and not pay us and couldn't see what the problem was.

However, the director had clearly done this kind of thing before so just ended up shutting his company down and starting up another one. We tried various avenues of enforcement but he basically had no traceable assets that belonged to the company so we got feck all.

Would I do it again? Honestly yes it's worth doing just because it's not right to let people screw you over and having our day in court was satisfying, but it would've been much better if the judge had forced him to pay up on the spot but sadly it doesn't work like that so be aware that getting your money back is harder than just winning in court.

[SueEllen]

How onerous is the application to get on Judge Rinder?

Your case has to be interesting.

They tend, like Judge Judy, to do domestic and neighbour disputes as they make good telly. Plus I suspect like with the small claims court most companies don't want to be on it.

[SlipTheJab]

How onerous is the application to get on Judge Rinder?

Dunno ask his boyfriend

[jonnyboy]

I agree with others - when I have taken somebody to the SCC (its not called this any more BTW), its more principle than the money, and its also to stop it happening to other people in the future.

Somebody said they were paying every step of the way... you were doing something wrong. All my claims have cost < £100 (the cost varys depending on the claim amount). Generally, an expert witness should be free. In my most recent case of me verses KwikGits, my expert witnesses were my insurance company (cost me £0.00p to get a letter saying if they had fitted the wrong tyres then I was not insured), various tyre federations who provided letters (£0.00p) and from BMW (again, £0.00p to get about 20 pages of technical specs, letters saying my car was damaged, it was the tires at fault etc etc). If somebody is charging you something, then they have seen you coming.

As for the courts mediation service - skip this - its a joke. It takes weeks to organise - its not you V them in a room... somebody from the courts service calls you, you give your side of the events. Then they hang up and call the defendant and get their side. Then they call you back to say that the defendant disagrees with what you said, you give you reaction, its passed back - and after 5 or 6 of these calls you feel more frustrated and its clear you cant agree... so it progresses to court anyway.

Again, just my POV.

[CoolCat]

I've used small claims about a dozen times, and won all but one.

Should have been a lawyer.

[SueEllen]

After which is Arbitration then Adjudication, all known globally as (ADR*) then Litigation

The courts like to see you try to make an effort pre litigation
(based on the C&T Courts)

*Alternative Dispute Resolution

That's why the government put loads of ombudsmen in place.

Unfortunately some of them are well-known to be fecking useless e.g. mobile phones, furniture and other ones e.g. financial services can be ignored by their members in complex cases which means you have to go to court with the ombudsman’s ruling.

However if they are there you are suppose to try and use them, and if your case is complex it may help you if you have to go to court.