Reply to: Bad News for the Climate zealots

[DodgyAgent]

I feel a New Year's Resolution coming on ....

[pjclarke]

I feel a New Year's Resolution coming on ....

[DodgyAgent]

http://forums.contractoruk.com/gener...ml#post2335823

Last time. I won't bother again.

[pjclarke]

Itis tripe because it undermines your propaganda

http://forums.contractoruk.com/gener...ml#post2335823

[DodgyAgent]

You already shared that tripe with us http://forums.contractoruk.com/gener...ml#post2335622

Google apparently also needs a 'memory loss' button.

Itis tripe because it undermines your propaganda

[pjclarke]

So, the temperature data is only accurate for the last 40 years, which in climate terms mean diddly squat.:

Satellite data (not without its issues) starts in 1979. However it gives the very similar results to the instrumental surface record,which goes back to 1880, so we can trust that.

The surface record confirms the high res proxy data, which goes back approximately 1400 years, give or take.

The high res data confirms the low resolution proxies, which go back hundreds of thousands of years.

Most greenhouse gas emissions are water vapour and methane, CO2 is a small proportion.

Water vapour emissions? Water vapour is indeed a powerful GHG, however any excess precipitates out in a few days or weeks. By contrast a third of an emitted pulse of CO2 is still affecting the climate after 100 years, a fifth after 1000 years.

Of this small proportion, the majority of CO2 emitted is natural, the human element of this small slice of greenhouse gases is again, small.

True, but this 'small' contribution has raised concentration by 40% since preindustrial times.

The effects of this small slice of a small slice are limited.

0.6W/m2, equivalent to 4 Hiroshima bombs per second being detonated in the atmosphere.

The CO2 problem in 6 easy steps « RealClimate

And yet Man Made Climate Change is more of a threat to human civilization than global nuclear war, disease, asteroid strike, terrorism and all other possible threats combined.

Who said that? The US Military describe climate change as a 'threat multiplier'

Climate Change Is ‘Mother of All Risks' to National Security

[pjclarke]

I found this: .

You already shared that tripe with us http://forums.contractoruk.com/gener...ml#post2335622

Google apparently also needs a 'memory loss' button.

[DimPrawn]

So, the temperature data is only accurate for the last 40 years, which in climate terms mean diddly squat.

Most greenhouse gas emissions are water vapour and methane, CO2 is a small proportion.

Of this small proportion, the majority of CO2 emitted is natural, the human element of this small slice of greenhouse gases is again, small.

The effects of this small slice of a small slice are limited.

And yet Man Made Climate Change is more of a threat to human civilization than global nuclear war, disease, asteroid strike, terrorism and all other possible threats combined.

And then we are expected to swallow this bulltulip are we?

[DodgyAgent]

Google needs a 'credible source' button.

That piece starts with a quotation,


Small problem, Houghton never said it.



From <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_T._Houghton#Misquotation>

So, zero for accurate research so far. The rest is a Straw Man - it is well-understood that natural sources of CO2 are many times larger than manmade; the point is that CO2 sources and sinks used to be in equilibrium. Manmade CO2 is only a few % of total emissions, but enough to cause an imbalance, in fact natural sinks, the ocean and biosphere, have absorbed about half of our emissions, but because CO2 hangs around for a long time, that small percentage accumulates year on year.

I found this:

CO2 is actually a rather flawed “greenhouse gas.” When CO2 is first introduced into the atmosphere it rapidly absorbs as much heat (in the form of infrared radiation) as possible. But it doesn’t take long for CO2 to become “optically saturated.” This means that after reaching roughly 0.0020 percent (20 parts per million) of the atmosphere, CO2 starts fading. From then on, it takes ever-doubling amounts of CO2 to trap the same amount of heat. By the present concentration of 0.04 percent (400 parts per million), CO2 is essentially saturated—and can’t meaningfully trap much additional heat.

This limitation of CO2 actually runs completely counter to the prevailing notion that adding more CO2 to the atmosphere will continue to trap ever greater amounts of heat. In truth, basic science demonstrates exactly the opposite, which is why climate scientists actually base most of their projected warming on “positive feedback” from water vapor.

[DodgyAgent]

Google needs a 'credible source' button.

That piece starts with a quotation,


Small problem, Houghton never said it.



From <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_T._Houghton#Misquotation>

So, zero for accurate research so far. The rest is a Straw Man - it is well-understood that natural sources of CO2 are many times larger than manmade; the point is that CO2 sources and sinks used to be in equilibrium. Manmade CO2 is only a few % of total emissions, but enough to cause an imbalance, in fact natural sinks, the ocean and biosphere, have absorbed about half of our emissions, but because CO2 hangs around for a long time, that small percentage accumulates year on year.

So why are you people not suggesting that we commit acts of genocide against world termite populations? This would mean we could continue to enjoy cheap energy by burning coal. I forgot a solution that does not involve controlling human behaviour is not to what you want to hear

[pjclarke]

It was termites fault ... <Blether> ....

Google needs a 'credible source' button.

That piece starts with a quotation,

"Unless we announce disasters, no one will listen."
— Sir John Houghton, first chairman of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and lead editor of its first three reports.

Small problem, Houghton never said it.

In a November 2006 article in Australia's*The Daily Telegraph, journalist*Piers Akerman*quoted Houghton as saying "Unless we announce disasters, no one will listen", attributing the quotation to his 1994 book*Global Warming, The Complete Briefing. This has since been quoted by many*sceptics, including*Benny Peiser*and*Christopher Monckton, and is listed at the top of the front page of*Christopher Booker's*The Real Global Warming Disaster. However, the quotation does not appear in any edition of Houghton's book. Houghton has never said any such thing and believes the opposite

From <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_T._Houghton#Misquotation>

So, zero for accurate research so far. The rest is a Straw Man - it is well-understood that natural sources of CO2 are many times larger than manmade; the point is that CO2 sources and sinks used to be in equilibrium. Manmade CO2 is only a few % of total emissions, but enough to cause an imbalance, in fact natural sinks, the ocean and biosphere, have absorbed about half of our emissions, but because CO2 hangs around for a long time, that small percentage accumulates year on year.

[DodgyAgent]

I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.

Point is, we've been around for a similarly small fraction of the planet's history; it is what the current warming, which is extremely rapid compared to the relatively stable and benign period in which human civililisation developed, will do that is relevant, seems to me.

Hard scientific proof

[DodgyAgent]

Number Six well underway.

The danger is, these things happen so gradually, almost background noise on a human scale, that almost nobody notices. We just lost >20% of the Great Barrier Reef to bleaching and it raised barely a ripple. In fact, pointing out these causes for concern gets you labelled a zealot.

It was termites fault

I Love CO2: Termites emit ten times more CO2 than humans. Should we cap-and-tax them? The public has been led to believe that increased carbon dioxide from human activities is causing a greenhouse effect that is heating the planet. But carbon dioxide comprises only 0.035% of our atmosphere and is a very weak greenhouse gas. Although it is widely blamed for greenhouse warming, it is not the only greenhouse gas, or even the most important. Water vapor is a strong greenhouse gas and accounts for at least 95% of any greenhouse effect. Carbon dioxide accounts for only about 3%, with the remainder due to methane and several other gases.

Not only is carbon dioxide's total greenhouse effect puny, mankind's contribution to it is minuscule. The overwhelming majority (97%) of carbon dioxide in the earth's atmosphere comes from nature, not from man. Volcanoes, swamps, rice paddies, fallen leaves, and even insects and bacteria produce carbon dioxide, as well as methane. According to the journal Science (Nov. 5, 1982), termites alone emit ten times more carbon dioxide than all the factories and automobiles in the world.

[pjclarke]

The only accurate data is satellite data, and that only goes back till about 1980.

So we are making sweeping predictions based on sampling the small temperature changes in about 0.0000000000000000000000000000001% of the Earth's climate history..

I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.

Point is, we've been around for a similarly small fraction of the planet's history; it is what the current warming, which is extremely rapid compared to the relatively stable and benign period in which human civililisation developed, will do that is relevant, seems to me.

[pjclarke]

The "ideal temperature", even if we can collapse the entire world climate into one number, is not the important thing. It's the RATE of change. The world has been MUCH warmer and MUCH colder than it is right now. Life is not equipped to cope with sudden change in climate as attested to by the 5 or so mass extinctions some caused by the emergence of life.

Number Six well underway.

The danger is, these things happen so gradually, almost background noise on a human scale, that almost nobody notices. We just lost >20% of the Great Barrier Reef to bleaching and it raised barely a ripple. In fact, pointing out these causes for concern gets you labelled a zealot.