Reply to: Cheney endorses simulated drowning

[John Galt]

"I am under no illusions here that this wouldn't already be happening by itself, but surely this sort of behaviour doesn't portray a happy picture of our "civilised", democratic society, let alone make it any less likely that young Islamic people will use violence to vent their frustration."

Since when were we a democratic society and since when have young Islamic people needed an excuse to be violent? The Government can denounce all it likes but it will make no difference to terrorists who hate our very existance and way of life - the only thing Cheney's remark may do is gain a little more support for the extremists for the muslims on the fence

[Mailman]

Believing in God.

You get enough people to believe a lie (like the one about Bush telling fibs about Saddam) and it becomes the truth

After all, a billion muslims cant all be wrong! (insert exploding on public transport smilie here )

Mailman

[Mailman]

Every civilised nation has publicly denounced torture but do any of you really think that it not used by them all and on a regular basis? It may be as a last resort but I think it is commonplace - after all what else do you do with hardened criminals/terrorists? Ask them nicely?

Yes ask them nicely AND threaten to send them a harshly worded letter if they dont fess up!

Mailman

[expat]

If torture didn't work it wouldn't be used. To argue that torture doesn't work is the same as saying that something humans have been doing since the year dot doesn't work.

Can anyone think of any other form of behaviour carried out all over the world by every civilisation since time began that doesn't work?

Believing in God.

[XperTest]

It doesn't matter if it is publicly accepted or codoned by the general populace and no amount of protesting about it will stop it and it is naive to think that it will. Governments will always publicly denounce it and, more significantly, denounce foreign Governments if they are suspected of using it but it will always happen as long as people continue to blow each other up

True, but as I said earlier in this thread if Western countries publically (yes, Cheney knew full well his radio interview was being broadcasted) condone the use of torture in the "war on terror" there is little justification in taking the moral highground when a couple of Iraqi terrorists/freedom fighters burn a US (or UK or any other nation that is "not against 'us'") soldier and then chain him up to the back of their car for a 'ride' through Baghdad. As the matter of fact, it sort of gives them a justification for inflicting bodily harm and going against the Geneva convention. I am under no illusions here that this wouldn't already be happening by itself, but surely this sort of behaviour doesn't portray a happy picture of our "civilised", democratic society, let alone make it any less likely that young Islamic people will use violence to vent their frustration. Linked to the fact that extremist Islamic view has it that by blowing up Western 'targets' they can go to Heaven and eternally enjoy a non stop stream of virgins I can't see this policy of fighting hatred with harted end positively, as much as I know how soft that sounds. If any of you think that by shooting a couple of dozen die hard extremists in Iraq or Afganisthan the overall unease between Moslims and Non Moslims around the world is diminished you are right in calling this line of policy a success. I myself think it's pouring more oil on the fire (that wasn't even that big to start with a decade ago) and will only lead to less freedom and more violence.

[John Galt]

We all know it gets used, but plucking out Faizel Islams toenails in Camp George Bush in Uzbekistan is a far cry from public acceptance of torture.

If torture is condoned for terrorists what to stop you being tortured as a "terrorist" for protesting at a rally.

Saying it doesnt happen is shortsighted, saying it shouldnt happen is good policy and a safeguard against getting a car battery connected to your scrotum if you protest against council tax rises.

It doesn't matter if it is publicly accepted or codoned by the general populace and no amount of protesting about it will stop it and it is naive to think that it will. Governments will always publicly denounce it and, more significantly, denounce foreign Governments if they are suspected of using it but it will always happen as long as people continue to blow each other up

[sunnysan]

Torture

We all know it gets used, but plucking out Faizel Islams toenails in Camp George Bush in Uzbekistan is a far cry from public acceptance of torture.

If torture is condoned for terrorists what to stop you being tortured as a "terrorist" for protesting at a rally.

Saying it doesnt happen is shortsighted, saying it shouldnt happen is good policy and a safeguard against getting a car battery connected to your scrotum if you protest against council tax rises.

[John Galt]

Every civilised nation has publicly denounced torture but do any of you really think that it not used by them all and on a regular basis? It may be as a last resort but I think it is commonplace - after all what else do you do with hardened criminals/terrorists? Ask them nicely?

[XperTest]

Very!

Honestly some of you goons need to wake up and smell the coffee. You have more chance of being run over by an out of control hippo than you do of being killed in a terrorist attack

Mailman

So we actually agree on something! This whole 'war on terror' business is complete and utter $@&^!)#$. As a result I don't think any excess such as torture, unjustified war, etc can be justified. Strangely, for the same reason you seem to think it can be. Care to explain how that logic works?

[sunnysan]

Yes

Very!

Honestly some of you goons need to wake up and smell the coffee. You have more chance of being run over by an out of control hippo than you do of being killed in a terrorist attack

Mailman

But before the war on terror, dismantling of human rights etc we had more chance of being run over by an out of control Brontosaurus than being killed in a terrorist attack.

[Mailman]

Very!

Honestly some of you goons need to wake up and smell the coffee. You have more chance of being run over by an out of control hippo than you do of being killed in a terrorist attack

Mailman

[snaw]

So you feel safer MM?

[Mailman]

If you're happy that hundreds of thousands of mainly innocent people are being killed in the name of a fight against "terrorism" (who's the agressor here I often wonder?) and billions of Western taxpayers money are spent doing this based on false confessions and blatant lies than I think any insightful discussion is beyond the realm of possibility. As far as I am concerned the current politics are a dead end street and we are only sowing more hatred rather than making the world a safer place.

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If it keeps me safe, Im happy for them muslims to be locked up because they have slanty eyes and are yellow!

Mailman

[white-anglo-reactionary]

Only a chickenhawk could spout this much cr@p

Discredited? More like the softc0cks in the west dont want to use it cause they want to look nice and namby pamby to the pinko leftie lesbo's who think the world is a box of fluffies!

No wonder you're in agreement with chickenhawk Cheney. FFS, you're a kiwi - your lot haven't exactly been at the forefront of the war on terror, have you? Stick to "Medal of Honour" in future

[XperTest]

My heart bleeds purple p1ss for Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi. Perhaps if he stayed at home raising his goats he wouldnt have got an all expenses paid trip to sunny cuba

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Mailman

If you're happy that hundreds of thousands of mainly innocent people are being killed in the name of a fight against "terrorism" (who's the agressor here I often wonder?) and billions of Western taxpayers money are spent doing this based on false confessions and blatant lies than I think any insightful discussion is beyond the realm of possibility. As far as I am concerned the current politics are a dead end street and we are only sowing more hatred rather than making the world a safer place.

NEXT