Reply to: BOE warns of Brexit recession

[LondonManc]

And you think UK would be out of TTIP when trading with USA??? The only hope for UK to have decent position is to be part of EU negotiation on TTIP.

Why?

Grow fish in a pond at home.

Get yer suit on and go and tell that to the trawlermen on the quayside you plum.

Support from the Govt should be in form of low taxes, that's all.

Triple facepalm.

Govt uses green taxes as excuse to collect lots of revenue, even if you remove those green taxes completely they'd have to invent something else, in any case UK will be bound by UN agreements on the matter.

Let them; it'll be good to see them working for a living.

It's already the case now - GBP is causing lots of problems with foreign trade, UK should have joined euro zone when it had the chance.

Join the Euro? You mean like other wise Euro-based moves, such as when Gordon sold our gold and bought Euros?

And why should that happen in the first place???

Protect jobs, improve infrastructure.

[AtW]

Fair enough, at least you're consistent. I don't think many of your fellow Bremainers would agree with you though.

It's a marriage of convenience

[jamesbrown]

UK should have joined euro zone when it had the chance.

Fair enough, at least you're consistent. I don't think many of your fellow Bremainers would agree with you though.

[AtW]

You mean unlike TTIP killing off the NHS if we stay?

And you think UK would be out of TTIP when trading with USA??? The only hope for UK to have decent position is to be part of EU negotiation on TTIP.

Or getting our fishing rights back if we leave?

Grow fish in a pond at home.

How about exiting CAP and supporting our own farms?

Support from the Govt should be in form of low taxes, that's all.

Cheaper energy by not having to cough up EU Green Taxes

Govt uses green taxes as excuse to collect lots of revenue, even if you remove those green taxes completely they'd have to invent something else, in any case UK will be bound by UN agreements on the matter.

No Euro to drag us down

It's already the case now - GBP is causing lots of problems with foreign trade, UK should have joined euro zone when it had the chance.

Allow state-aiding of industries such as steel.

And why should that happen in the first place???

[LondonManc]

It's the people who want to Leave should explain very well BIG benefits that allegedly would follow Brexit.

Why take big risks in changing when no obvious benefits exist, only new BIG risks???

You mean unlike TTIP killing off the NHS if we stay?

Or getting our fishing rights back if we leave?
How about exiting CAP and supporting our own farms?
Cheaper energy by not having to cough up EU Green Taxes
No Euro to drag us down
Allow state-aiding of industries such as steel.

[Hobosapien]

Why buy UK stuff now when one could wait until 24th June and buy same thing 20%+ cheaper?

Not if the fear mongers are right about sterling crashing if the vote is out, or in.

Basically whatever happens will be due to the current state of the global economy, not whether the UK has to sign some new contracts.

[AtW]

Is this the same recession we're already in, or a new one?

UK industry in recession for third time in eight years - BBC News

Why buy UK stuff now when one could wait until 24th June and buy same thing 20%+ cheaper?

[jamesbrown]

Easy.

Internal trade is just about same money changing hands.

Exporting means you get NEW money.

If you export a lot more than you import (like Germany) then you get wealthier.

Accepting common EU regulations, which also apply to other countries, is just part of the rules of the elite club.

Oh dear. When companies move from overseas to the UK, is that "exporting"? When Germany exports more than it imports, where in the EU is that trade surplus balanced by a corresponding deficit? I'm afraid this is far more complicated than import = bad, export = good. But even if that were true, you'd need to explain to me, given what I said above, about why our prospects for exporting are better within the EU. Presumably, you'd argue that joining the Euro would boost our exports to the EU (afterall, you can't get much more "common" than a currency). Are you suggesting that we should join the Euro? If not, why?

[AtW]

This is a decision for the long-term. The Bremainers need to explain is how the EU will be configured in 20-30 years from now, as it moves towards "ever closer union", and how we won't be disadvantaged by that process.

It will be for sure an even closer union.

[Hobosapien]

Is this the same recession we're already in, or a new one?

UK industry in recession for third time in eight years - BBC News

[jamesbrown]

I'm more concerned about hard facts from the Bremainers. Not a single one has explained what we will definitely, without a shadow of a doubt, lose, which would be to the detriment of the country.

The only figure I've seen from either side is the membership fees that we'll not have to pay, net of rebate, which works out at around £280m per week. The Brexiters prefer to quote the £350m, conveniently ignoring the rebate but it's still one hell of a wedge that would plug a gap in our shortcomings.

This is a decision for the long-term. The Bremainers need to explain is how the EU will be configured in 20-30 years from now, as it moves towards "ever closer union", and how we won't be disadvantaged by that process. Our opt out from the language of "ever closer union" is absolutely worthless. There is no special status. On the contrary, we just negotiated the loss of our veto on other countries proceeding with fiscal, political and economic integration.

[original PM]

I'm more concerned about hard facts from the Bremainers. Not a single one has explained what we will definitely, without a shadow of a doubt, lose, which would be to the detriment of the country.

The only figure I've seen from either side is the membership fees that we'll not have to pay, net of rebate, which works out at around £280m per week. The Brexiters prefer to quote the £350m, conveniently ignoring the rebate but it's still one hell of a wedge that would plug a gap in our shortcomings.

The brexiters are too stupid to understand fact apparently so we just get doomongering.

Nobody knows the answer but I say if you are not living life on the edge you are taking up too much space.

Let's vote out and take advantage of the opportunity to change.

[AtW]

Define "real".

Easy.

Internal trade is just about same money changing hands.

Exporting means you get NEW money.

If you export a lot more than you import (like Germany) then you get wealthier.

Accepting common EU regulations, which also apply to other countries, is just part of the rules of the elite club.

[jamesbrown]

Real wealth comes from exports.

Define "real".

Around 80% of our trade is internal to the UK. Our most important external trading partner is the US. The vast majority of UK companies do not trade with the EU, but must accept all single market regulation. The EU accounts for a (rapidly) declining proportion of our global trade, and this proportion itself is overstated (the Rotterdam Effect). There is no convincing evidence that the EU itself has contributed to increased trade, i.e. that internal trade between EU countries has increased more rapidly than trade between the EU and other countries. Furthermore, the EU is hopeless at negotiating trade deals. There are too many vested interests among the EU countries in particular sectors. Of course, the difficulty in establishing the benefits of the single market is the counterfactual; there isn't one. Instead, there are models of the counterfactual, which make assumptions about tariff and non-tariff barriers, but not about the effects of EU regulation on the productivity of companies/workers that do not trade with the EU, for example. The models are structurally flawed.

What really matters is how our gov't responds following Brexit. And that's sort of the point.

[AtW]

I'm more concerned about hard facts from the Bremainers. Not a single one has explained what we will definitely, without a shadow of a doubt, lose, which would be to the detriment of the country.

It's the people who want to Leave should explain very well BIG benefits that allegedly would follow Brexit.

Why take big risks in changing when no obvious benefits exist, only new BIG risks???