Reply to: Expats lose referendum vote legal bid

[darmstadt]

Um, yes, that's how democracy works.

Yes but I suppose I meant its a possible vote that bumps up the numbers on one side for something that does not even effect the UK (unless your considering moving abroad in the future maybe) and not maybe a true personal vote for the UK if that makes sense!

Remember that probably quite a few of those Brits living abroad are probably under the 15 year rule so you can knock the number down a bit. Then there are quite a few who will vote 'Leave' in particular it seems the pig ignorant ones in the south of Spain who cite 'too many immigrants! and then there are those who have left the country as tax exiles or whatever (aka Daily Mail columnists, Daily Mail owners and Vote Leave campaigners) and will also still be voting 'Leave'...

[jamesbrown]

I take it from your use of the English language that you are not a native speaker (no shame in that as it's a difficult language to master, and you're doing well enough - I certainly applaud your efforts to integrate). However, as an immigrant to the UK, perhaps you might respect those of us who are UK citizens living overseas, who would still like a say in EU membership.

I take it from your mastery of vBulletin quoting...

[jamesbrown]

Yes but I suppose I meant its a possible vote that bumps up the numbers on one side for something that does not even effect the UK (unless your considering moving abroad in the future maybe) and not maybe a true personal vote for the UK if that makes sense!

I understand what you're saying but, as tempting as it may be, I prefer to have a franchise that is logical, rather than one that gets us over the line more easily (otherwise, we should get rid of Scotland ). FWIW, I don't think the 700k ineligible overseas voters are going to make a decisive difference anyway. It's more about the principle. As UK citizens, even if they're not currently living here (and haven't been for some time), I don't think we should be imposing a statutory limit (the Tories accept this, because there's a manifesto pledge to remove it) and, in many respects, the impacts (or uncertainties) on our leaving the EU are just as great for long-term, non-resident, UK citizens as the rest of us.

[Old Greg]

Yes but I suppose I meant its a possible vote that bumps up the numbers on one side for something that does not even effect the UK (unless your considering moving abroad in the future maybe) and not maybe a true personal vote for the UK if that makes sense!

I take it from your use of the English language that you are not a native speaker (no shame in that as it's a difficult language to master, and you're doing well enough - I certainly applaud your efforts to integrate). However, as an immigrant to the UK, perhaps you might respect those of us who are UK citizens living overseas, who would still like a say in EU membership.

[curtis]

[QUOTE=jamesbrown;2248169]Um, yes, that's how democracy works.

Yes but I suppose I meant its a possible vote that bumps up the numbers on one side for something that does not even effect the UK (unless your considering moving abroad in the future maybe) and not maybe a true personal vote for the UK if that makes sense!

[jamesbrown]

Suddenly we have 1000's making a vote that is covering only their possible problem.

Um, yes, that's how democracy works.

I'm a strong supporter of leaving, but UK citizens living abroad should get the vote IMO, as they're citizens and the 15yr rule is a pretty arbitrary limit (which is why the Tories pledged to scrap it in favour of the broader franchise).

[curtis]

I think anyone who has been living abroad over so many years should not have the EU in/out vote.

As no one really knows what may happen if we come out it could be that they have to suddenly fill in more paperwork to remain living abroad,may have to jump through lots more hoops so to make sure they don't get it any harder they could vote 'Stay' even if by doing so they don't agree with what it means for the UK as someone else said they are not effected directly by changes in the UK.

Suddenly we have 1000's making a vote that is covering only their possible problem.

[Troll]

Go Plant Launches Driver Scheme to Tackle Shortage

The biggest reason for driver shortages is the enforced CPC requirement

Under a European Union Directive, professional bus, coach and lorry drivers need to hold a Driver CPC in addition to a vocational driving licence. Any drivers of lorries over 3.5 tonnes and minibuses with 9 seats or more must usually obtain a Driver CPC.

Meaning drivers with 20+years experience being forced back into the classroom for noddy training programs
Lots have chosen to leave the industry

[AtW]

This requires Supreme Court judgement.

[jamesbrown]

The saga continues:

To some degree. However, if you read the HC judgement, it's pretty clear. I'd be interested to know what informed commentators think but, in my lay opinion, it's very unlikely to gain any traction, i.e. nothing to see here. That said, FWIW, I think they probably should get the vote.

[darmstadt]

The saga continues:

3 May 2016
British citizens living in EU granted leave to appeal in Brexit challenge
The High Court has given permission for lawyers acting for two British citizens, fighting a legal battle for the right to vote in the EU Referendum, to take their case to the Court of Appeal.
On Thursday (28 April 2016) two High Court judges rejected the legal challenge taken by 94-year-old Harry Shindler, a Second World War veteran who lives in Italy, and lawyer and Belgian resident Jacquelyn MacLennan against the UK Government’s decision to exclude British people who have lived elsewhere in the European Union for more than 15 years, from voting in June.
Lawyers from law firm Leigh Day argued that under the EU Referendum Act 2015 up to 2 million British citizens are being unlawfully denied the right to vote on the UK’s continued membership of the EU.
They told the Court that if the vote in June is to leave the EU then all British citizens will lose their status as EU citizens. This means that those British citizens living outside the UK but in the EU will become “resident aliens” living and working abroad under sufferance rather than by right and no longer able to claim the protections of EU law .
The Court also heard arguments that the ’15 year rule’ acted as a penalty against British citizens for having exercised their free movement rights. The rule prevented them from participating in a democratic process, the result of which might bring to an end the very EU law rights on which they rely and base their working and private lives every day.
Lawyers are seeking an expedited hearing at the Court of Appeal to hear the challenge to the High Court ruling within the next few weeks.
ENDS

[DodgyAgent]

I get a feeling that these "expats" want all the benefits of being within the UK system and don't want it to end but the public (not the big business mindless we still don't have enough billions corporations) who stay here and suffer the consequences of being in the EU have frankly had enough. This is a vote for your own conscience, not a vote to make the rich even richer. That's what is missing in this discussion. All we hear is how much worse off we will be financially. Nothing about how much worse off -or not- that we will be in our minds and bodies.

The ones that "grin and bear it" should be the ones who get a vote, not the ones that have run away to a better life.

The main scare story is that if Turkey etc. get access to the EU, as our minimum wage is far higher than any other country there will be many more economic migrants that don't add anything to the skills shortage we are suffering now. There's only so many "Polish Plumbers" needed. There's only so many jobs that economic migrants can fill.

It's this form of scare story that has most of the weight regarding the EU. If we are in, we cannot ever stop economic migrants, we don't have the infrastructure, power supplies, water supplies, housing, jobs, even sewage capacity for the numbers we have in the UK now. That's why, IMHO we are going to vote for Brexit. I know I am.

Because what we really need to get our country back on track is exactly what is in use in Australia, Canada, the US, New Zealand and many other countries no doubt. If we need your skills then you have a job. If we don't need more road sweepers then you don't get in. It's not isolationist, it's a matter of getting the influx of people we need, not the ones who are selling all they have to come here and sweep up. Or not.
I don't for one second beieve that immigrants come here for benefits, most that I come in contact with are here to earn a living. And they need everything that any other resident needs. Security, a wage, somewhere to live and taps that work, power that can be switched on.

We are at a stage now that in a few short years we will be unable to supply quite a bit of that through rather strange government policies that turn off generating power before the new stuff has even got foundations laid. That keep building pointless railways, that spend treasure dropping bombs on places we only know about because they are on the telly. Never mind. We won't be able to watch it when we run out of juice. Or use the web.

Rant over..

Well written

However

Go Plant Launches Driver Scheme to Tackle Shortage

[Old Greg]

Strong stuff but well said. Unfortunately it's these kind of posts that get lost in the swamp of forum spammers...

Bravo, Sir!

[AtW]

Haven't you read the UKIP manifesto

Nope!

[Flashman]

I get a feeling that these "expats" want all the benefits of being within the UK system and don't want it to end but the public (not the big business mindless we still don't have enough billions corporations) who stay here and suffer the consequences of being in the EU have frankly had enough. This is a vote for your own conscience, not a vote to make the rich even richer. That's what is missing in this discussion. All we hear is how much worse off we will be financially. Nothing about how much worse off -or not- that we will be in our minds and bodies.

The ones that "grin and bear it" should be the ones who get a vote, not the ones that have run away to a better life.

The main scare story is that if Turkey etc. get access to the EU, as our minimum wage is far higher than any other country there will be many more economic migrants that don't add anything to the skills shortage we are suffering now. There's only so many "Polish Plumbers" needed. There's only so many jobs that economic migrants can fill.

It's this form of scare story that has most of the weight regarding the EU. If we are in, we cannot ever stop economic migrants, we don't have the infrastructure, power supplies, water supplies, housing, jobs, even sewage capacity for the numbers we have in the UK now. That's why, IMHO we are going to vote for Brexit. I know I am.

Because what we really need to get our country back on track is exactly what is in use in Australia, Canada, the US, New Zealand and many other countries no doubt. If we need your skills then you have a job. If we don't need more road sweepers then you don't get in. It's not isolationist, it's a matter of getting the influx of people we need, not the ones who are selling all they have to come here and sweep up. Or not.
I don't for one second beieve that immigrants come here for benefits, most that I come in contact with are here to earn a living. And they need everything that any other resident needs. Security, a wage, somewhere to live and taps that work, power that can be switched on.

We are at a stage now that in a few short years we will be unable to supply quite a bit of that through rather strange government policies that turn off generating power before the new stuff has even got foundations laid. That keep building pointless railways, that spend treasure dropping bombs on places we only know about because they are on the telly. Never mind. We won't be able to watch it when we run out of juice. Or use the web.

Rant over..

Strong stuff but well said. Unfortunately it's these kind of posts that get lost in the swamp of forum spammers...