Reply to: the comeback of german militarism

[AtW]

Sure, give me some time, maybe month - don't play a lot these days, but I like the game - need to get acquiented (sp?) with rules first as its more complicated than PG.

[Lucifer Box]

Now that I would like to see. Once you've gotten your feet wet, let me know if you fancy playing a PBEM game.

[AtW]

Sounds awesome - when SKA generates some real cash I think I will put up a bounty on making beautiful PG-level maps for this game.

[Lucifer Box]

Spotting range depends on all sorts of factors... terrain, elevation, time of day, weather, type of unit spotting and being spotted, morale, commander ability and so on. Yes, dug in troops are much harder to spot than others, but units can spot for each other if they are in radio contact (a major German advantage). Some commanders are better than others at it and some unit types. Get your best forward observer unit to do the spotting. The HQ unit (A0) is usually the best at spotting for your artillery and if that unit is in a good location you will find your artillery accuracy much improved.

Also note that any unit can use "indirect" fire (strictly area fire) and can just fire blindly into a hex regardless of whether you can see enemy in it or not. The effectiveness is reduced of course but it serves to keep their heads' down (essentially you just fill an area with lead, Vietnam style).

Remember this is much more closely modelled on "real life" than PG and getting kills is nowhere near as important as suppressing the enemy's ability to manoeuvre and/or return fire. You can win a battle with clever tactics having only killed or injured 10% of the enemy force.

[ratewhore]

The chairman of the German Armed Forces Union, Bernhard Gertz said that there was a growing danger of attacks after the revelation of the shock photos. "The commanders (in Afghanistan) will have to consider what reactions they will have to deal with," Gertz said in a television interview.

Blimey - attacks on soldiers in Afghanistan. Whatever next...

[AtW]

Sounds good! You sure right about PG - tactical bombers are the key to victory, if not possible then get very good long range arty support - it seems much harder in this game because field is bigger and tanks can shoot from far away. By the way spotting does not seem to work far, htf tank can shoot targets 4 km away, but can't see 500 m? Maybe it was terrain and troops dug in can't be seen - I started with Ferdinands on Kursk, which is probably a tough map.

[Lucifer Box]

ok thanks. PG 2 looks beautiful, even 1 was good - they also have got it simplified which to make game accessible to people.

This game however is sure amazing in terms of how well thought it is.

If I move tanks ahead of infantry, would it be protected from small arms fire of those in the trenches?

You're right, the PG games look great, but the gameplay is limited. As you've probably found out, most scenarios have a key that unlocks them and in the campaign games all you need are some five star bombers and you're away. But as you say, it makes them accessible to the casual gamer and there's nothing wrong with that. There were even versions for the Playstation!

Your infantry would be protected to some extent. I think the hit chance is degraded by a third or something like that. Note that you can ride your infantry squads panzergrenadier style on the tanks, which helps with your mobility if you're short on half-tracks or trucks.

The ultimate mobile "weapon" for the Germans though are the motorbike and sidecar units. Great mobility, superb scouts and lots of fun.

Always, but always lead your advances into concealed terrain, and certainly into built up areas with infantry. If you just run into unscouted towns with armour they will be devastated by any concealed enemy units if they have any sort of heavy weapons (bazookas/panzerschrecks, panzerfausts, molotovs, what have you).

If you're advancing along a road you don't trust, try and lead with combat engineers - they have the best chance of spotting mines and can clear barbed wire and anti-tank obstacles more effectively than regular infantry.

[AtW]

ok thanks. PG 2 looks beautiful, even 1 was good - they also have got it simplified which to make game accessible to people.

This game however is sure amazing in terms of how well thought it is.

If I move tanks ahead of infantry, would it be protected from small arms fire of those in the trenches?

[Lucifer Box]

As you've found out, trying to roll over entrenched infantry with tanks tends to result in real life results, i.e. the tanks get their turrets blown off. The best units to assualt with are other infantry, and the best of those are combat engineers who have lots of sexy close assault weapons like flamethrowers and satchel charges.

However, you can't just roll up as you'll get gunned down on the approach. First of all, use your artillery to bombard the defenders. You many not score many casualties but it will keep them suppressed and degrade their morale. If you have ground attack aircraft, send them in on strafing runs. Use your mortar teams to keep up a steady barrage then approach in groups of squads, each one covering the other. Use machine gun teams in concealed high up positions to keep the defenders' heads down. It doesn't matter if you score casualties or not, as long as you keep them pinned. If the terrain is favourable use your artillery or mortars to lay down smoke rounds to cover your approach.

Tanks automatically use HE rounds against infantry and AP rounds against armour (as long as they have them).

I told you it makes PG look like a kids' game.

[AtW]

How to you assault dug up position with infantry? Seems like using tanks no it is pointless, and infantry takes casualties while moving closer to the line - ought to be smart way?

Also, is it possible to change ammo type in tanks, ie HE rounds vs infantry and AP vs tanks, is it done automatically?

[Lucifer Box]

Ok, I just tried it - looks crap comparing to PG, but from brief 45 mins that I could play it became clear that the game is pretty ****ing amazing indeed. Much harder than PG as well - those ruskies in Kurst just would not line up and die

Glad you enjoyed it, Alexei. It really is the best WWII tactical level game there is. As you say, the graphics are nothing to write home about but it is the gameplay that counts, and it has that in spades.

I like playing Winter War scenarios and taking a few plucky Finns up against the Red Army hordes. For a real challenge, try assaulting a Japanese held island with US marines.

BGG, what one Earth does ZOMGWFT mean? I know what you mean about ASL though, although I think you took it to extremes there. If you're sensible with which optional rules you use you can run through a satisfying game fairly quickly.

[AtW]

We'll agree to differ there.

Ok, I just tried it - looks crap comparing to PG, but from brief 45 mins that I could play it became clear that the game is pretty ****ing amazing indeed. Much harder than PG as well - those ruskies in Kurst just would not line up and die

[Board Game Geek]

Advanced Squad Leader.

ZOMGWFT?LOLOLOLOLOL

That brings back some memories !

I remember playing the very first module "Beyond Valor" (sic) at a RPG event in Basildon way back in the mists of time.

I had this unit of Finnish soldiers attempting to attack a Russian town, and me and the other guy were trying to work out the room clearance order using suppresive fire and opportune attack orders, or something like that. We spent 6 hours skimming the rules only to find the event venue was closing down. In the last hour of closing, we both scribbled detailed maps of current troop deployments, so we could exhange phone numbers, and continue at a later date.

Sadly, I lost my notes (for 19 years) and only found them a few months ago when I was clearing the attic.

I wonder if I can track him down on Friends Reunited ?

[Lucifer Box]

PZ2 is not crock - it is classic! PG3 is a crock of steaming threaded though

I've downloaded free version - is enhanced CD one much better from graphical point of view, maybe high res units? The maps on screenshots look tulipe

We'll agree to differ there. To be fair I've only played PG1 and PG3, both of which I found to be too simplistic and easy to win even on hard settings.

I don't know about that version as I've not used the Windows hack. This is the one I use and it's plenty good enough for me: http://www.fileplanet.com/142677/140...Full-Free-Game.

The difference with the paid for version is the addition of the mega-campaigns. Enormous linked and scripted campaigns, very in-depth. They're good, but the free version is plenty good enough too.

The game engine is based on the old boardgame classic, Advanced Squad Leader.

[AtW]

PZ2 is not crock - it is classic! PG3 is a crock of steaming threaded though

I've downloaded free version - is enhanced CD one much better from graphical point of view, maybe high res units? The maps on screenshots look tulipe