Reply to: May 7th

[Zero Liability]

Who would they be?

You can follow this for their backgrounds: www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN01528.pdf

This US-based link (which is equally applicable to the UK or any other western democratic system) underscores my point as to why I think a working class background is by and large meaningless: http://www.psmag.com/politics-and-la...ng-class-87478

And this underscores why it's mostly just a PR exercise: http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/generalelecti...ng-in-britain/

I'd be more willing to accept this argument if it could be shown how such a background leads to better policy and leadership. To me, it seems like the individuals you mentioned (Thatcher, Major) had a bit more than just humble origins.

Also, according to this the "traditional working class" is barely 15% of the population: SAGE - the natural home for authors, editors and societies - About us

So if we were to assume MPs should exist in proportions reflective of the populational makeup, it'd take another 10% or so of a working class background, but again I wonder for what benefit?

My issue with them isn't their background but the fixation on short-termist policy and vote-whoring, which are system-driven. I think the political pressures to maximise voter buy-in on them are the same irrespective of that background. Particularly if you're an individual lacking in the ability to empathise (and I see no reason to assume those of a working class background are any more likely to possess this ability; politicians as a class tend to attract sociopaths), the background will simply be turned into a hook to capture more voters, irrespective of whether you intend for there to be any follow through.

If anything, too much of a commonality of a background is what has allowed politicians in democratic countries to perpetuate the illusion that it is rule of, for and by the people, when in reality it is nothing of the sort. They should always be subjected to scrutiny and suspicion.

[Roger Mellie]

Emily Thornberry is one. She was screeching at Peter Hitchens on QT the other night for demonizing single mothers on council estates (which he wasn't) "I was raised by a single mother on a council estate.... How dare you...shame on you..." etc.

Got some brass neck this girl. This is the same Emily Thornberry who had to resign as a result of that sneering tweet which showed a white van outside a George Cross adorned council house in Rochester during the by election a few months back.

[Gumbo Robot]

Who would they be?

Emily Thornberry is one. She was screeching at Peter Hitchens on QT the other night for demonizing single mothers on council estates (which he wasn't) "I was raised by a single mother on a council estate.... How dare you...shame on you..." etc.

Got some brass neck this girl. This is the same Emily Thornberry who had to resign as a result of that sneering tweet which showed a white van outside a George Cross adorned council house in Rochester during the by election a few months back.

[Roger Mellie]

...and he couldn't even win a majority against the worst PM we've ever had.

That's the thing, people often class John Major as an unsuccessful PM, but he actually won an election and with the highest popular vote since the war, over 14 million votes which translated into a measly 20 odd seat majority. Yet Bliar in 97 got less votes than Major did in 92, yet his majority was over 150 seats.

As for Broon, he knew full well why the Tories lost in 97, the house price crash as a result of the ERM crisis. That was back in the days when the Tories had no problems with letting housing bubbles go pop. However, Broon threw the kitchen sink at propping up house prices after the financial crisis. Nearly worked, he didn't quite get the same drubbing as Major and Co got during 97.

[Roger Mellie]

There are plenty of politicians who make much of their "working class background", as if it qualifies them to govern others any more than Etonian one.

Who would they be?

[Zero Liability]

Interesting. I'm trying to understand how you think an Eton man can represent you in any shape or form? Such people don't go through life wondering how they'll meet the next mortgage payment, in fact I doubt they even think about what needs to be prepared for their pack lunch for work the next day.

Isn't odd how the previous two successful Tory PMs were in fact non-Eton folk? John Major and Margaret Thatcher. In fact, the last working class PM this country had was indeed John Major, so far the only PM to have experienced life on the dole. Yet we voted him out in favour of a Red Tory with no life experience whatsoever?

Boris is a baffon who happens to have a 'Russell Brand' comedy style to his personality. Yeah, he's a funny guy but he represents only his privileged upbringing. An upbringing I have no problem with, but an upbringing which does not represent the majority of the nation.

Farage is sort of nearly there, but again I don't think he himself can point back to a time where he has really struggled in life.

What we need is just the normal man/women on the street who knows what it's like to struggle a little. However, the Political Class have effectively barred such people from standing.

That's a very sad fact. We don't vote on merit, just on who makes us laugh and who looks or sounds 'cool'.

Well, a couple of things. I don't consider background to be particularly important. An ability to empathise and think logically, as well as a certain amount of grit and the ability to say no, matter far more. There are plenty of politicians who make much of their "working class background", as if it qualifies them to govern others any more than Etonian one. They're still dribbling idiots that probably could not even be trusted to run a chippy, and even if there were commonality of background, they'd still have no place in saying they either understand or are in a position to represent me. Frankly, more often than not, it's just a hook to sell their moronic policies. Thatcher, for all her imperfections, understood what makes an economy progress and didn't have a defeatist mentality that only views the world in terms of class warfare. Would she even want to associate with Cameron's vision of the Tories?

There's very few Tories with any proximity to power that I could consider as possessing the traits I mentioned and like I said, I'd rather Farage replaced Cameron, but seeing as that is an impossibility, I'll go for the next best thing. Daniel Hannan could be, perhaps, but he isn't anywhere near to being considered for PM, although he is certainly someone I consider to be a very clear thinker. I like Steve Baker as well, but not necessarily PM material. I think Farage, as a former commodities trader, is a pretty tenacious individual and certainly a clearer thinker than most in politics. I just want someone who will eventually say, enough is enough, we are rolling back the government once we've cleaned up the mess, and we do not propose to make the state as custodian a permanent way of life. I have zero interest in politicians who want to provide me with "cradle to grave" plans or who, even more ridiculously, believe they can manage the economy in some conceited technocratic fashion, out of feigned "concern" for the state's class of dependants.

Another thing is that, in practice, the bureaucracy and administrative elite possess a significant amount of power and vested interests against any reform of the system as it currently is. At the moment, is there that much difference between someone who is a 'clown' and someone who makes a thousand and one promises, but then breaks them all upon entering power? Most party policies seem to be short-termist and geared at winning the next election, on a 5 year cycle, and this is a significant issue. Economic policies, in particular, suffer from time lags, are often sold on the basis of stated benefits and ignored or unseen (opportunity) costs, and can easily go awry if frustrated later down the line by another party, making it so much easier for one to blame the other. Perhaps those are the issues that need to be examined before thinking that any single PM will make much of a difference, but I certainly have my preferences in the interim. I hope if Scotland does go, it'll leave the Tories time to reorganise a little and re-evaluate their direction of travel.

[Gumbo Robot]

At that time the Tories had lost 3 GEs in a row to Blair. The Tory rank and file were screaming out for an answer to Blair: David Cameron.

...and he couldn't even win a majority against the worst PM we've ever had.

[Roger Mellie]

I have to admit that they weren't particularly memorable. That said, I liked his politics and he was also someone who supposedly knew a bit about real life .

Yes I agree, his politics were good. But up against slick PR man Cameron plus the mood of desperation within the Tory party, DD didn't stand a chance.

During the leadership election, Cameron was seen as slick and kept the audience awake whilst he spoke without notes. On the hand, DD rattled on in a monotone voice and quite literally sent his audience to sleep.

At that time the Tories had lost 3 GEs in a row to Blair. The Tory rank and file were screaming out for an answer to Blair: David Cameron.

[Gumbo Robot]

Did you witness DD's leadership speeches? He effectively bored people out of voting for him.

I have to admit that they weren't particularly memorable. That said, I liked his politics and he was also someone who supposedly knew a bit about real life .

[Roger Mellie]

Or, perhaps, when David Davis lost the leadership contest.

Did you witness DD's leadership speeches? He effectively bored people out of voting for him.

[Roger Mellie]

There's only a handful of senior Tories I like, foremost being Boris Johnson, and certainly not Theresa May. Honestly, I'd much rather have Farage than Cameron, the personification of blandness, at the top of the Tory party. At least Boris has a bit of colour to him and has openly stated he'd be quite happy to work with Farage. I'd be much fonder of the Tories if the laissez faire, free market wing of their party took it back.

Interesting. I'm trying to understand how you think an Eton man can represent you in any shape or form? Such people don't go through life wondering how they'll meet the next mortgage payment, in fact I doubt they even think about what needs to be prepared for their pack lunch for work the next day.

Isn't odd how the previous two successful Tory PMs were in fact non-Eton folk? John Major and Margaret Thatcher. In fact, the last working class PM this country had was indeed John Major, so far the only PM to have experienced life on the dole. Yet we voted him out in favour of a Red Tory with no life experience whatsoever?

Boris is a baffon who happens to have a 'Russell Brand' comedy style to his personality. Yeah, he's a funny guy but he represents only his privileged upbringing. An upbringing I have no problem with, but an upbringing which does not represent the majority of the nation.

Farage is sort of nearly there, but again I don't think he himself can point back to a time where he has really struggled in life.

What we need is just the normal man/women on the street who knows what it's like to struggle a little. However, the Political Class have effectively barred such people from standing.

That's a very sad fact. We don't vote on merit, just on who makes us laugh and who looks or sounds 'cool'.

[Gumbo Robot]

The old Tory party died a death at the 2005 GE.

Or, perhaps, when David Davis lost the leadership contest.

Funny how this Cameron character appeared completely out of the blue to upset the apple cart (because DD was a shoe in for the leadership) with all the organs of the media cheering him on on the basis of ONE speech. So much so that the membership believed the hype and voted him into the top job.

[Zero Liability]

There's only a handful of senior Tories I like, foremost being Boris Johnson, and certainly not Theresa May. Honestly, I'd much rather have Farage than Cameron, the personification of blandness, at the top of the Tory party. At least Boris has a bit of colour to him and has openly stated he'd be quite happy to work with Farage. I'd be much fonder of the Tories if the laissez faire, free market wing of their party took it back.

[TestMangler]

I agree.

Tony Blair's greatest achievement is David Cameron. We don't have a Tory PM, we have a New Labour PM.

The old Tory party died a death at the 2005 GE.

troo dat....

[Roger Mellie]

You could have stopped there

Under normal circumstances, a Tory PM would be wiping the floor with a soggy twat like Milliband. Unfortunately, Cameron is an equally soggy twat.

Maybe the traditional English parties should make some effort to sort out the mess they've got themselves into by pursuing the ghost of Blair and the 'Thick of It' style mass appeal politics and get back to some conviction based politics. Then you wouldn't have the greater part of the UK demonising and fearing smaller parties for the possibility they might hold some power.

I agree.

Tony Blair's greatest achievement is David Cameron. We don't have a Tory PM, we have a New Labour PM.

The old Tory party died a death at the 2005 GE.