Reply to: Copyrighting your code!?!!??!

[AtW]

whether you are the author or not is irrelevant

It is highly relevant because it creates conflict of interest, in fact it raises question whether person who was paid to do the job, actually spend paid for time working on his own library that is not owned by the client.

If it was 3rd party then this important question would walk away because no incentive, but if its your name then it is you who will be on defensive - it looks suspicious immediately, and the client will easily say that the code belongs to them.

If you do not have permission to use 3rd party library in writing then you expose yourself big time, especially if it is your library that was used because in this case not only you can lose contract money, but also ownership of your own work.

[Cowboy Bob]

You are missing the point - it is entirely possible they would never agree to taint their product with any 3rd party license, especially if it is you who licensing them stuff.

In the Java world I have never come across a client that doesn't use Apache licensed libraries. Hell, even IBM WebSphere uses them internally meaning the client implicitly uses them.

If I saw no evidence of 3rd party library usage then I would be more cautious.

it will be you who will have to prove you did not write a line of code in your library whilst at work.

That's easy, the CVS timestamps are there for everyone to see over at SourceForge.

[DimPrawn]

Stop talking bollox. All of you.

AtW you don't know the contract terms.

The others, you need to clarify your contract position regarding 3rd party libraries (whether you are the author or not is irrelevant).

HTH.

Now, this thread is boring so I won't be looking at it again.

[AtW]

You are missing the point - it is entirely possible they would never agree to taint their product with any 3rd party license, especially if it is you who licensing them stuff.

They will assume your library that you used was written or at least modified during the time whilst they paid you, which makes it a tricky situation for you - it will be you who will have to prove you did not write a line of code in your library whilst at work.

If they find out and you do not have permission in writing that you could do it, then in my unqualified opinion you will be shafted.

[Cowboy Bob]

oh, so your contract does not say that the development work you do belogs to the client? I find it hard to believe! If nothing is said who owns the IP you create, then by default it will be client since it was done on the client's site and they paid for it.

This pretty much means that you can be seriosly screwed to the point of being terminated if they find out that you poisoned their own IP with your own libraries. Talk to a lawyer.

Don't be ridiculous!!! Of course it says that code I write in persuit of the individual contract belongs to them. What it doesn't say is that any code I write during the time period of the contract belongs to them. If it did, I wouldn't be able to work for any other clients at the same time. Neither would any consultancy business.

[AtW]

No, and I would never sign such a thing.

oh, so your contract does not say that the development work you do belogs to the client? I find it hard to believe! If nothing is said who owns the IP you create, then by default it will be client since it was done on the client's site and they paid for it.

This pretty much means that you can be seriosly screwed to the point of being terminated if they find out that you poisoned their own IP with your own libraries. Talk to a lawyer.

[oraclesmith]

It's mine all mine ! My lawyer wrote the contract. Ha, ha, ha, ha !!!

[Cowboy Bob]

Does your contract state that all the work you do 100% belongs (and this is copyright) to your client, yes or no?

No, and I would never sign such a thing. The work I do in my own time, off the client site, is none of their business.

[AtW]

Does your contract state that all the work you do 100% belongs (and this is copyright) to your client, yes or no?

[Cowboy Bob]

Do you have it in writing that the client agreed for this (yours actually) 3rd party product to be used for the solution they develop, yes or no?

No, but neither do I have it in writing that I can use the junit.jar, commons-upload.jar, jxl.jar and numerous other open source libraries that I'm linking to - because I don't need to. As I said, the author of those libraries is irrelevent.

[AtW]

Do you have it in writing that the client agreed for this (yours actually) 3rd party product to be used for the solution they develop, yes or no?

[Cowboy Bob]

AIUI: The problem with using Open Source code, is the little rule that you are expected to abide by, that says if you use our open source code in your project you're obliged to open source all the other code that you put into your project.

BICBW

tim

No, that's specifically the GPL license. There's nothing that says that open source code has to be under the GPL license. I, for example, use the Apache license for my 3rd party libraries which has no such restriction.

[Cowboy Bob]

I don't think you are an idiot CB.

If I were you I'd double check contract however and that they have agreed in writing for you to include specific software.

This is a very dangerous area that people in IT dept may not grasp, but just because they say "aye" to you including some code from the side, does not mean it is all okay - it is possible this will blow in your face some time later, it will look especially bad if it was YOU who had the extra code - if you used some 3rd party then it is objective.

I'm not including code, I'm linking to external open source binary libraries. There is a big difference. They can never say that this code is their IP since the code for those libraries has never been near their source code repository, and nor will it. I also have the time stamps of the code in the SourceForge CVS repository that prove that it existed there first if the client decides to download the source and claim it as theirs.

[tim123]

why don't you sourceforge / open source it? Then you can just "download" the jar/whatever and include it.

AIUI: The problem with using Open Source code, is the little rule that you are expected to abide by, that says if you use our open source code in your project you're obliged to open source all the other code that you put into your project.

BICBW

tim

[AtW]

I don't think you are an idiot CB.

If I were you I'd double check contract however and that they have agreed in writing for you to include specific software.

This is a very dangerous area that people in IT dept may not grasp, but just because they say "aye" to you including some code from the side, does not mean it is all okay - it is possible this will blow in your face some time later, it will look especially bad if it was YOU who had the extra code - if you used some 3rd party then it is objective.