Reply to: Overnight Expenses

[MojoDog]

... So the MS company could just be making up the expense claims and passing them on, a dangerous game.

I would at the very least want e-mail confirmation that by ticking this box, they won't want hotel receipts or other evidence at a later date.

Personally I wouldn't tick the box on the principle that it isn't relevant to your relationship with the MS company...

Some very good points there. Thank you.

I just emailed ABC Ltd and said that whilst I was happy to tick the box as a gesture of goodwill I would like it made clear that whatever arrangements have been agreed between them and the client regarding this matter are not relevant to the contract between ABC Ltd and myself. And furthermore, as I do not submit any expense claims to ABC Ltd for overnight accommodation, I would like some written assurance that I will not be asked to provide receipts etc or other evidence at a later date.

ABC Ltd replied straightaway and said "Absolutely, thanks for helping us out..."

[riffpie]

Personally I wouldn't tick the box on the principle that it isn't relevant to your relationship with the MS company. You are obligated to pay your own expenses, in much the same way they can't ask for a copy of your company accounts it's basically none of their business.

I'd be the same way, I expect. As someone else mentioned, it's probably a more pragmatic move to tick the box and grease some wheels with the client, but I'm not averse to being less than pragmatic now and again in the name of a principle.

[riffpie]

I would be concerned if someone was making money out of me for ticking a box.

They're not making money out of you - or OP - though. They're making money out of their client.

[kingcook]

What his client is making out of their business with their client isn't really any of OPs concern. He's getting a rate he's happy with, he was presumably comfortable with the overnight stay when he accepted the offer, that's really an end of the matter, no? If it turned out he was staying with a friend overnight, at no cost to himself, could ClientCo then ask for a slice of that benefit, and reduce his rate accordingly?

I would be concerned if someone was making money out of me for ticking a box.

[riffpie]

If they're getting some extra money because you are staying over night, and not passing it on to you, you need to negotiate for some extra.

If they're not willing to do that, just say you're not staying overnight.

What his client is making out of their business with their client isn't really any of OPs concern. He's getting a rate he's happy with, he was presumably comfortable with the overnight stay when he accepted the offer, that's really an end of the matter, no? If it turned out he was staying with a friend overnight, at no cost to himself, could ClientCo then ask for a slice of that benefit, and reduce his rate accordingly?

[MojoDog]

If they're getting some extra money because you are staying over night, and not passing it on to you, you need to negotiate for some extra.

If they're not willing to do that, just say you're not staying overnight.

With the greatest respect, I don't need to do anything. I already said that I negotiated and accepted a contract rate that was right for me. Kicking up a fuss mid-contract will just cause bad feeling all round.

I'm already compiling evidence for a rate-rise come renewal time - I'll make sure all of this is factored in

[kingcook]

If they're getting some extra money because you are staying over night, and not passing it on to you, you need to negotiate for some extra.

If they're not willing to do that, just say you're not staying overnight.

[MojoDog]

Don't let the IR35 tail wag the dog - you have the choice of either helping the party that you contract with, or not, with no implication on anything else that you do. So why wouldn't you tick the box?

Agreed. A little bit of goodwill goes a long way

Thanks for all the replies, it's always good to get different perspectives.

[TheFaQQer]

But I'm not claiming for anything or doing anything over and above the terms of my contract. Just checked the timesheet and the tick-box says "Overnight Stay" which technically is correct. Whatever ABC Ltd do with that information is out of my hands, surely?

That would be my approach. If you incur an overnight stay, then there is a field there to flag that up - you never know, at renewal time they may count the number of overnight stays and give you a rate increase or something.

Don't let the IR35 tail wag the dog - you have the choice of either helping the party that you contract with, or not, with no implication on anything else that you do. So why wouldn't you tick the box?

[MojoDog]

I've worked beside guys in a managed services company who were told to fill in expense forms to the client. These were paid to the MS company but never passed onto the workers who didn't seem to care as they hadn't incurred any expenses in the first place. They just did it so they didn't get on the wrong side of their boss.

All seemed pretty dodgy to me and another reason I would never go MS.

But I'm not claiming for anything or doing anything over and above the terms of my contract. Just checked the timesheet and the tick-box says "Overnight Stay" which technically is correct. Whatever ABC Ltd do with that information is out of my hands, surely?

[Batcher]

I've worked beside guys in a managed services company who were told to fill in expense forms to the client. These were paid to the MS company but never passed onto the workers who didn't seem to care as they hadn't incurred any expenses in the first place. They just did it so they didn't get on the wrong side of their boss.

All seemed pretty dodgy to me and another reason I would never go MS.

[SueEllen]

Now that we're 2 months down the line wouldn't the contract be regarded as set in stone? Also, it has 4 months left to run with a strong probability of being extended so maybe that might be the time to renegotiate.

Renegotiate when extended and make sure you have a record of this request in your arsenal.

[MojoDog]

+1 If they are making a few extra quid by claiming you are staying over when you are not then I would be worried, if you tick that box are you opening yourself up to a way for them to bin you whenever they feel like it by insinuating you're making 'fraudulent claims'? If its kosher then at the very least you should be pocketing this 'overnight allowance' rather than your consultancy using it as an excuse to fleece a few more £££ from the client.

EDIT: I see you are in fact staying over for the contract = you should be getting this overnight allowance

From memory (I don't have access to it right now) the contract just states an hourly rate (which I negotiated to take into account expenses associated with staying away).

I have to confess that I hadn't considered specifying living expenses because I had factored them in to my rate. Also, my view at the time was that no one is holding a gun to my head to take this gig and that I was getting a rate that I was comfortable with.

Now that we're 2 months down the line wouldn't the contract be regarded as set in stone? Also, it has 4 months left to run with a strong probability of being extended so maybe that might be the time to renegotiate.

[TheFaQQer]

EDIT: I see you are in fact staying over for the contract = you should be getting this overnight allowance

Why should they get the allowance if it isn't something that is agreed in the contract between them and ABC?

[kal]

What does your contract say about expenses ?

Whats in it for you to tick that box ?

+1 If they are making a few extra quid by claiming you are staying over when you are not then I would be worried, if you tick that box are you opening yourself up to a way for them to bin you whenever they feel like it by insinuating you're making 'fraudulent claims'? If its kosher then at the very least you should be pocketing this 'overnight allowance' rather than your consultancy using it as an excuse to fleece a few more £££ from the client.

EDIT: I see you are in fact staying over for the contract = you should be getting this overnight allowance