Reply to: Agency withholding payment

[SueEllen]

It would probably be easier to send a copy of each by email and post as opposed to running about

In the past I've done:
1. signed for method
2. two post offices
3. email and post

The best results are from methods 1 and 3.

1 is really good when you can read the signature of the person who has signed for the letter.

[Safe Collections]

Better to send the letters from two seperate post offices and get proof of posting. In law it is deemed as received regardless after the 3rd day. Sending from two separate post offices lessens the likelyhood that they were never received and has been accepted in previous cases. Also cheaper, even though you would claim this also.

It would probably be easier to send a copy of each by email and post as opposed to running about

[SueEllen]

Better to send the letters from two seperate post offices and get proof of posting. In law it is deemed as received regardless after the 3rd day. Sending from two separate post offices lessens the likelyhood that they were never received and has been accepted in previous cases. Also cheaper, even though you would claim this also.

Depends on where you live whether it's cheaper or not.

[Boney M]

True.

You need to look reasonable if you think you may have to go to court to reclaim the money.

So the first letter shouldn't have the title "Letter Before Action" it should be something like "Failure to Pay Wages" while the second letter should be the LBA.

Also you need to give them 14 days in the first letter and 7 days in the LBA. This is to look "reasonable". You don't want your case thrown out if you do submit a claim for not giving them sufficient time to pay up.

Make sure in your first letter and your second letter you make it clear if you take legal action they will be liable for costs and interest.

Also send any letters to them by a signed for method preferably next day delivery. Companies and people deny receiving debt letters. A company is never believed if the letter is sent by a tracked method to their registered address as Royal Mail is a neutral party.

Finally I'm not sure how much you are owed but small claims are easy to do and the limit for them is 10K.

Better to send the letters from two seperate post offices and get proof of posting. In law it is deemed as received regardless after the 3rd day. Sending from two separate post offices lessens the likelyhood that they were never received and has been accepted in previous cases. Also cheaper, even though you would claim this also.

[SueEllen]

You do not need to send another letter after sending a LBA

True.

You need to look reasonable if you think you may have to go to court to reclaim the money.

So the first letter shouldn't have the title "Letter Before Action" it should be something like "Failure to Pay Wages" while the second letter should be the LBA.

Also you need to give them 14 days in the first letter and 7 days in the LBA. This is to look "reasonable". You don't want your case thrown out if you do submit a claim for not giving them sufficient time to pay up.

Make sure in your first letter and your second letter you make it clear if you take legal action they will be liable for costs and interest.

Also send any letters to them by a signed for method preferably next day delivery. Companies and people deny receiving debt letters. A company is never believed if the letter is sent by a tracked method to their registered address as Royal Mail is a neutral party.

Finally I'm not sure how much you are owed but small claims are easy to do and the limit for them is 10K.

[Boney M]

In the nicest sense you need to stop wasting time and get nasty.

Send a letter threatening court action if the brolly doesn't pay you within 7 days. From memory it should have the words 'Letter before action' in it but check interweb for exact wording. After 7 days send a further letter. If they still fail to pay then start action in tge small claims court.

Be clear about this. The brolly is not your friend. They have money you have worked for. If you want it then get nasty.

You do not need to send another letter after sending a LBA

[kal]

The brolly have a choice, piss the agency off or piss the contractor off. Which one do you think they will do? If they upset the contractor then who cares. If they upset the agency then the agency will become disinclined to work with them in future and that's a big deal to the umbrella company.

Not much you can do about it, it's just the nature of the beast when working with umbrella companies...

Even allowing for all of the other benefits this reason alone makes going limited a no brainer!

[Wanderer]

Brollies do not like to fall foul of agencies (they usually give the agency inducements to refer contractors) but they are expected to be on side with the contractors.

The brolly have a choice, piss the agency off or piss the contractor off. Which one do you think they will do? If they upset the contractor then who cares. If they upset the agency then the agency will become disinclined to work with them in future and that's a big deal to the umbrella company.

Not much you can do about it, it's just the nature of the beast when working with umbrella companies...

[GB9]

In the nicest sense you need to stop wasting time and get nasty.

Send a letter threatening court action if the brolly doesn't pay you within 7 days. From memory it should have the words 'Letter before action' in it but check interweb for exact wording. After 7 days send a further letter. If they still fail to pay then start action in tge small claims court.

Be clear about this. The brolly is not your friend. They have money you have worked for. If you want it then get nasty.

[Boney M]

I took the advice of an earlier response. Contacted the umbrella and urged them to seek payment given the clause in the contract of:

Payment Terms – Monthly PROVIDED that the Service Provider shall have complied with the terms herein below and subject to payment timescales as published on our Live site

An email from the agency for payment in March stated that the timesheets had to be signed off and invoice raised by 6th March ready for payment by 19th March. My contract ended on 17th February so they have had plenty of time to do their "checks" (which still haven't been clarified)

The umbrella have come back to me and stated that the agency are withholding payment until April in line with the contract. I can find nothing in the contract to suggest that they can withhold payment for 2 months after the end of the contract. The emails received from the agency regarding specific deadlines and payments for the current pay period were those displayed on their website (in line with the contract extract above) and I have pointed this out to the umbrella. They seem to be twiddling their thumbs.

Sounds like bulltulip to me. Have you spoken to your contact at the agency?

Oh name and shame both too

[Padz]

I took the advice of an earlier response. Contacted the umbrella and urged them to seek payment given the clause in the contract of:

Payment Terms – Monthly PROVIDED that the Service Provider shall have complied with the terms herein below and subject to payment timescales as published on our Live site

An email from the agency for payment in March stated that the timesheets had to be signed off and invoice raised by 6th March ready for payment by 19th March. My contract ended on 17th February so they have had plenty of time to do their "checks" (which still haven't been clarified)

The umbrella have come back to me and stated that the agency are withholding payment until April in line with the contract. I can find nothing in the contract to suggest that they can withhold payment for 2 months after the end of the contract. The emails received from the agency regarding specific deadlines and payments for the current pay period were those displayed on their website (in line with the contract extract above) and I have pointed this out to the umbrella. They seem to be twiddling their thumbs.

[Taita]

The critical question is: Who can you sue for the money?

It is unlikely the OP can sue the Agency as his payment contract is with the brolly so they can sue.

Brollies do not like to fall foul of agencies (they usually give the agency inducements to refer contractors) but they are expected to be on side with the contractors. I would try to speak to a senior executive or director of the brolly and ask them to push the agency.

Meantime, a polite inquiry with the client manager is also advisable. Questions: " Is there any reason why you would withhold payment from the agency for work I have carried out and for which you have authorised timesheets? May I please ask your accounts department if the invoice has been received and paid?" If the answers are no and yes you can take it from there.

[Old Greg]

OK, I understand the difference between ltd and umbrella, I just didn't understand how switching from one to the other was going to help me with this particular problem now.

I was ltd before and spent most of my time chasing payments and dealing with accountants instead of concentrating on my contracts. My previous umbrella were fine with payments, even when there was a problem with the agency, but on this occasion the agency forced me to use an umbrella on their list and both the agency and the umbrella appear to be as incapable as each other in resolving this. "carrying out some checks" doesn't strike me a suitable reason for withholding payment. Surely, regardless of the umbrella used, the agency is in breach of contract anyway because it hasn't complied with it's own payment schedule and its requirements for the payment to be made. I'm not in breach in any way.

Thanks for the responses so far

Let's say the agency is in breach of contract. Their contract is with the brolly, not with you. So what can you do to enforce? I'm not trying to be unhelpful and I may not properly understand brollies. But I think you need to push the brolly hard to get payment from the agency. Why would the agency listen to you? You cant sue them.

[Taita]

The critical question is: Who can you sue for the money?

It is unlikely the OP can sue the Agency as his payment contract is with the brolly so they can sue.

Brollies do not like to fall foul of agencies (they usually give the agency inducements to refer contractors) but they are expected to be on side with the contractors. I would try to speak to a senior executive or director of the brolly and ask them to push the agency.

Meantime, a polite inquiry with the client manager is also advisable. Question: " Is there any reason why you would withhold payment from the agency for work I have carried out and for which you have authorised timesheets?" May I please ask your accounts department if the invoice has been received and paid?" If the answers are no and yes you can take it from there.

[Padz]

OK, I understand the difference between ltd and umbrella, I just didn't understand how switching from one to the other was going to help me with this particular problem now.

I was ltd before and spent most of my time chasing payments and dealing with accountants instead of concentrating on my contracts. My previous umbrella were fine with payments, even when there was a problem with the agency, but on this occasion the agency forced me to use an umbrella on their list and both the agency and the umbrella appear to be as incapable as each other in resolving this. "carrying out some checks" doesn't strike me a suitable reason for withholding payment. Surely, regardless of the umbrella used, the agency is in breach of contract anyway because it hasn't complied with it's own payment schedule and its requirements for the payment to be made. I'm not in breach in any way.

Thanks for the responses so far