Reply to: Unpaid Invoices - But Rather Complicated

[Safe Collections]

Well, to complicate things, I was operating through an offshore (don't ask )

Not asking

Like we said, probably worth a punt but we can't imagine anything will come of it.

[dack]

So the invoicing chain was you > offshore company > agency > client?

And you hope that the client is suddenly going to pay you (who they have no legal relationship with) rather than anyone else in the chain that they do have a legal relationship with?

Good luck.

As I said earlier, it was a punt sending in the invoices, was expecting client to say either they had paid monies to liquiidator or simply that they're not legally obliged to pay. Was well shocked when the replied saying they would pay, now they just saying it's complicated and will take longer than originally thought.

They haven't yet said, sod off, wer'e not paying.

[dack]

Did you pay your VAT on your invoices raised to UK taxman.?

No idea. I was effectivley an emplopyee of this firm so no involvement in raising invoices etc. I simply completed a weekly timesheet.

[tarbera]

I was operating through an offshore

Well, to complicate things, I was operating through an offshore (don't ask ), being based in Cyprus meant that their correspondence was sporadic to say the least. This meant the liquidators couldn't deal with me directly.

There was 12+ of us on site so I was kept well up to date through the other guys.

At the end of the liquidation, contractors were offered 2p in the £ but I didn’t hear a thing from my offshore who have now dissolved themselves (as they do).

Did you pay your VAT on your invoices raised to UK taxman.?

[kal]

4th page before this is mentioned?

Can't see this going anywhere to be honest.

+1 Let it go, don't waste any more time and money on this lost cause, chalk it down to experience.

[jmo21]

Well, to complicate things, I was operating through an offshore (don't ask ), being based in Cyprus meant that their correspondence was sporadic to say the least. This meant the liquidators couldn't deal with me directly.

There was 12+ of us on site so I was kept well up to date through the other guys.

At the end of the liquidation, contractors were offered 2p in the £ but I didn’t hear a thing from my offshore who have now dissolved themselves (as they do).

4th page before this is mentioned?

Can't see this going anywhere to be honest.

[DirtyDog]

Well, to complicate things, I was operating through an offshore (don't ask ), being based in Cyprus meant that their correspondence was sporadic to say the least. This meant the liquidators couldn't deal with me directly.

So the invoicing chain was you > offshore company > agency > client?

And you hope that the client is suddenly going to pay you (who they have no legal relationship with) rather than anyone else in the chain that they do have a legal relationship with?

Good luck.

[dack]

Very odd.

Out of interest, it sounds like you did not lodge a claim with the liquidator is this correct? If this is the case, we would be interested to know why not?

Well, to complicate things, I was operating through an offshore (don't ask ), being based in Cyprus meant that their correspondence was sporadic to say the least. This meant the liquidators couldn't deal with me directly.

There was 12+ of us on site so I was kept well up to date through the other guys.

At the end of the liquidation, contractors were offered 2p in the £ but I didn’t hear a thing from my offshore who have now dissolved themselves (as they do).

[Safe Collections]

I had assumed all outstanding payments would have been made by the client to the liquidators but since my contact 5 months ago they've never claimed my invoices have been paid (initially said all had been checked out and they would be making payment).

In fact their last email stated:

"One of our managers is liasing with different teams across the business to ascertain the correct legal process."

Very odd.

Out of interest, it sounds like you did not lodge a claim with the liquidator is this correct? If this is the case, we would be interested to know why not?

[dack]

It was probably worth a punt to chase the end client for payment, but in our experience the insolvency practitioners will have done everything possible to recoup all outstanding funds due to the agency as they use these funds to make payment to the creditors (after they have taken their own exorbitant fees of course).

The fact you state that:



Would seem to indicate that this is exactly what the IP has done. Assuming you lodged your claim with the liquidators as a creditor of the agency, you would have received a final report outlining what payments, if any, the IP was making.

As for credit insurance, it is an option. But the restrictions the credit insurers place on their clients mean that you can generally only deal with extremely low risk customers. So you end up paying for a service that bars you from taking on even a moderate risk.

I had assumed all outstanding payments would have been made by the client to the liquidators but since my contact 5 months ago they've never claimed my invoices have been paid (initially said all had been checked out and they would be making payment).

In fact their last email stated:

"One of our managers is liasing with different teams across the business to ascertain the correct legal process."

[dack]

i've had an agency go under owing me a lot. the end client was sympathetic and promised they would make sure i got paid so i kept working. they changed their minds because the liquidators came after them and me for the earnings. so a very similar situation. i should have downed tools and left with a loss of a couple of months but i was too trusting.

anyway, i had a lot of invoices and expenses backed-up - some of which the liquidators knew of and some they didn't. realising this i spoke to the liquidators and arranged a deal where i paid them a cash sum if they would waive ownership of the debt and release me to invoice the client directly. it worked.

Yeh ,we tried cutting a deal with the client at the time but they didn't want to know (public sector).

My entire reason for submitting invoices now is all based on the fact that the agency is now dissolved so the liquidators are no longer involved. Anyway, it's gonna cost me £200 to find out from a solicitor where I stand.

[Safe Collections]

It was probably worth a punt to chase the end client for payment, but in our experience the insolvency practitioners will have done everything possible to recoup all outstanding funds due to the agency as they use these funds to make payment to the creditors (after they have taken their own exorbitant fees of course).

The fact you state that:

All monies have been distributed to creditors

Would seem to indicate that this is exactly what the IP has done. Assuming you lodged your claim with the liquidators as a creditor of the agency, you would have received a final report outlining what payments, if any, the IP was making.

As for credit insurance, it is an option. But the restrictions the credit insurers place on their clients mean that you can generally only deal with extremely low risk customers. So you end up paying for a service that bars you from taking on even a moderate risk.

[DS23]

i've had an agency go under owing me a lot. the end client was sympathetic and promised they would make sure i got paid so i kept working. they changed their minds because the liquidators came after them and me for the earnings. so a very similar situation. i should have downed tools and left with a loss of a couple of months but i was too trusting.

anyway, i had a lot of invoices and expenses backed-up - some of which the liquidators knew of and some they didn't. realising this i spoke to the liquidators and arranged a deal where i paid them a cash sum if they would waive ownership of the debt and release me to invoice the client directly. it worked.

[dack]

You do have to have an agreement, though. In your case, you had an agreement with the agency, and the agency had an agreement with the client.

You did not have an agreement with the client, therefore the client does not have to pay you directly for work that you did when engaged through a third party.

That is true but I know another contractor who was working for a different client at the time, was paid some 4 weeks of invoices directly from the cleint when Pendragon went t1ts up.

What I'm hoping to find out on Tue is if payment is at the clients discretion or are they legally obliged to pay someone (hopefully me ).

It's worth £200 and a hour of my time to have it confirmed either way.

[DirtyDog]

You don't actually need a contract in place to submit invoices, I've done it many times on new contract or renewals, as I’m sure many others have. The fact that you’re actually doing the work is a contract in itself that has been accepted by the contractor and the client.

You do have to have an agreement, though. In your case, you had an agreement with the agency, and the agency had an agreement with the client.

You did not have an agreement with the client, therefore the client does not have to pay you directly for work that you did when engaged through a third party.