Reply to: Frustration

[TK421]

I must admit, I did have a very understanding boss! It depends on the situation really - I was a permie in an IT department which was two years into a very complex Oracle implementation. The chances of going to a competitor were negligible, and there wasn't much company specific logic that I was working with that would be worth anything to a competitor (apart from how to implement Oracle solutions).

My immediate boss also said that if I wanted a reference, I should go direct to him rather than risk anyone else in the company supplying one.

Fantastic boss, great development team - no future in it after another three months though, so I left!

[Robwg]

I did consider resigning with nothing to go to, but the contractors that I was working with at the time all said the same thing - get a contract and walk out with little / no notice. What can they do about it??

Absolutely nothing - although you run the risk of losing the reference from them.

I know if I was a manager and an employee was basically trieing to have his cake and eat it (which is what you did - and hats off to you) I would do an William Gallas on him and let him rot in the reserves :-) I.e. work your notice period or you won't be getting any reference from this firm. Obviously the reference issue has come up before on this forum and there are ways around it for the employee - but if that was the only stick I had to beat him with then so be it.

Seriously - if every manager thought the way your boss did there would be noone left to do permanent work!!!

[Torran]

As MonkeyBoy said here , it's all down to negotiation.

If your boss asks why you keep having to nip into an office on the phone, then I thought that honesty was the best policy! The decision to leave was down to a lifestyle choice rather than anything that the company could do differently, and it gave them the best opportunity to bring in a decent replacement to do some handover. If the company is so short-sighted that they ask you to leave straight away, then you're best off out of it.

I did consider resigning with nothing to go to, but the contractors that I was working with at the time all said the same thing - get a contract and walk out with little / no notice. What can they do about it??

If you have the possibility of a contract with a competitor and the present employer finds out, you'll be luck to last the week tbh.

[TK421]

Yes, can't believe many companies would go along with that. More likely is they'll ask you to leave straight away.

As MonkeyBoy said here , it's all down to negotiation.

If your boss asks why you keep having to nip into an office on the phone, then I thought that honesty was the best policy! The decision to leave was down to a lifestyle choice rather than anything that the company could do differently, and it gave them the best opportunity to bring in a decent replacement to do some handover. If the company is so short-sighted that they ask you to leave straight away, then you're best off out of it.

I did consider resigning with nothing to go to, but the contractors that I was working with at the time all said the same thing - get a contract and walk out with little / no notice. What can they do about it??

[ratewhore]

Much easier for me - I was made redundant! That helps focus the mind!!!

So into contracting I went and it's great...

[VectraMan]

Hmmm - that method - while great (infact ideal) does seem to rely on you having a very very understanding boss - and lets face it - most aren't.

Yes, can't believe many companies would go along with that. More likely is they'll ask you to leave straight away.

[Robwg]

I went through the same thing earlier this year, and considered resigning without anything to go to - two kids and a mortgage is a deterrent though! Here's the approache I took:

1 - I told my boss that I was looking for a contract, so that they had the best chance to bring in a replacement as soon as possible and do handover etc. if necessary. It also meant that I could make it clear that I was going to leave anyway, it wasn't that I wanted another permie job, I wanted to go contracting.

2 - Suggest that your permie role moves some work onto other people. My boss moved my main development tasks onto the rest of the team, and I picked up the one-off work (bug fixing etc.)

3 - Start telling agents that you've agreed a two week (or one week) notice period on your contract. Once you get the job, you can agree the definite start dates. My boss was very understanding (wife is an HR manager who told him that the contract was pretty worthless, so why keep someone who wants to leave?), his boss was less-so.

4 - Once you've got an offer, see when you can leave the permie job. Tell them your proposed start date - what can they do? If you've let them have a warning in advance then you've done as much as you can. My first contract said they would wait four weeks if necessary, but by then I was demob happy and only worked another 7 days for my permie role.

Worst case is (as someone else said) that they don't pay your last few weeks - it's probably not worth arguing over, although there is a principle at stake. The income from the contract should more than cover that easily.

Best of luck!

TS15

Hmmm - that method - while great (infact ideal) does seem to rely on you having a very very understanding boss - and lets face it - most aren't.

[TK421]

I went through the same thing earlier this year, and considered resigning without anything to go to - two kids and a mortgage is a deterrent though! Here's the approache I took:

1 - I told my boss that I was looking for a contract, so that they had the best chance to bring in a replacement as soon as possible and do handover etc. if necessary. It also meant that I could make it clear that I was going to leave anyway, it wasn't that I wanted another permie job, I wanted to go contracting.

2 - Suggest that your permie role moves some work onto other people. My boss moved my main development tasks onto the rest of the team, and I picked up the one-off work (bug fixing etc.)

3 - Start telling agents that you've agreed a two week (or one week) notice period on your contract. Once you get the job, you can agree the definite start dates. My boss was very understanding (wife is an HR manager who told him that the contract was pretty worthless, so why keep someone who wants to leave?), his boss was less-so.

4 - Once you've got an offer, see when you can leave the permie job. Tell them your proposed start date - what can they do? If you've let them have a warning in advance then you've done as much as you can. My first contract said they would wait four weeks if necessary, but by then I was demob happy and only worked another 7 days for my permie role.

Worst case is (as someone else said) that they don't pay your last few weeks - it's probably not worth arguing over, although there is a principle at stake. The income from the contract should more than cover that easily.

Best of luck!

[Peter Loew]

It all depends...

I guess I was lucky enough to secure a contract with a 4 week notice. I start on the 11th Sept 06 and am looking forward to it.

The client wanted me to start the week before, but I said it was impossible and they agreed to wait a week. Contract is signed and all!

But yes, I am looking forward to it. I think I would have quit my job anyway if I did not find anything. Funny thing is, I got this through word of mouth, not through an agency, and this is my first contract! Got an offer the same day and I could tell in the interview they really wanted me. I just wished I asked for a higher rate!

Peter

[Robwg]

I'm sure other folk have moved from permie to contracting without risking their home, I would probably get my notice down to 2 weeks or even a week, if that doesn't do it then I will have to start saving for 3 months worth of income.

Ah yes - the perenial 'making the jump' problem.

Basically - it takes balls. However, there is a sneaky (albeit slightly long winded) way around this problem. Which I did by accident but could be done properly.

What I did was went and got another Permie job (at Accenture). I was then on 2 weeks notice for the probation period (about 3 months) - I then basically decided I had made a big mistake and got a contract then. The 2 weeks was no problem.

Basically - you won't get a contract with 4 weeks notice. End of story really.

[Diestl]

Who says you have to give them any notice? Find a contract starting tomorow (say you are immediatley avaiable), and then just quit work. The worst they can do is not pay your last paycheck. And guess what, because you'll be contracting, your first months invoice will more than cover the sortfall.

Easy isnt it? Just be a bit more ballsie FFS.

My bosses have been good and good posibility of work out of them so if possible I want to leave on good terms, but if not I will be just walking as I owe them nothing.

Thanks for all the great advice look out for my first post as a contractor

[hyperD]

But that's the point (Chico would know this): it's a leap of faith to go from permie to contracting. So many perms resent contractors because they reckon they do the same job and yet get more money. As soon as you say, well if it's that easy then you do it?

Then come the excuses...

[pickle]

notice

Who says you have to give them any notice? Find a contract starting tomorow (say you are immediatley avaiable), and then just quit work. The worst they can do is not pay your last paycheck. And guess what, because you'll be contracting, your first months invoice will more than cover the sortfall.

Easy isnt it? Just be a bit more ballsie FFS.

[chef]

I'm with Cojak and Xen,

Save up some cash, hoard your holdiays, have the fantastic satisfaction of "politely" telling your last ever boss that you have decided to take the plunge. Watch his/her face fall over the next day or so as they realise you're being serious and prepare for the other permie scum to approach you as though you've just announced your terminally ill.

Search like mad for a contract and trust that your good enough to get one that at minimum pays the bills. Anything better than that (and they usually are unless you have the spending skills of Threaded) and your laughing.

Jump.. go on we dare ya..

[stan2484]

Jfdi

I have been on both sides of the coin, I was lucky enough to secure my current contract with a 4 week notice period from my last permie job (never going back!) and yes it took about 6 months for that to happen.

However a few years ago I jumped from a permie job with only a weeks notice with no contract in the offing, I had a mortgage and 3 kids at the time and was earning good dollars, thought my nuts were going to end up being stuffed in my gob by the wife!! but it only took me a sum total of 3 days to land a contract, as it has been posted before if you can start yesterday you will get sorted PDQ.

Some good advice from the guys who have already posted is to fire some brass in the bank while you still hope for a notice period deal, once you have that bang your cards in and you will be sorted as soon as the door hits you on the arrse on the way out of permiedom!!.

Good luck fella.