Reply to: shafting an agent?

[TheMonkey]

You can shaft agencies easily. All you have to do is be nice to them, get another interview in and then not turn up and turn your phone off for a couple of days. The bastards get well angry!

[ExpCont]

1. Whether you go direct or not, the insurance question is always there. Even if you are through an agency, there is always a liability clause which makes you liable for what you do. I have found, I have been able to minimise my liabilty by going direct because I have been asked to supply the contract which has left me in the driving seat.

2. There is no fear of an agency taking action. Firstly, it is not worth it. Secondly, no contract has been signed and even if it could be argued that an implied contract exists, you would still be able to demonstrate that you had contact with the end-client previously. From a legal point of you, what would need to be proved is, would you have got the job if it had not have been for the agency i.e. would your friend have become aware of the need in sufficient time to ring you up and arrange an interview before the agency had got someone else in there. But like I say, an agency would never attempt to take something like this further anyway.

3. As already pointed out in another reply, a CV may not be sent to client without prior consent.

[The Lone Gunman]

Well it's moved on a bit now. As I mentioned I asked the agent to send me a full job spec to read before I agreed to send my CV through but by the time I got home yesterday he had sent off my CV and lined up an interview!!!

Can't be arsed to argue the toss about this with him or the client now and for the sake of landing what could be a good contract I'm going to give in on this one so as long as he can get me the rate and terms I want then I'll go through him.

He has broken the rules on conduct of an employment agent. He is not allowed to forward your CV without your permission. Report him to the DTI.

[stacks]

Well it's moved on a bit now. As I mentioned I asked the agent to send me a full job spec to read before I agreed to send my CV through but by the time I got home yesterday he had sent off my CV and lined up an interview!!!

Can't be arsed to argue the toss about this with him or the client now and for the sake of landing what could be a good contract I'm going to give in on this one so as long as he can get me the rate and terms I want then I'll go through him.

[BillHicksRIP]

Employment Business. That's what they are called, not agencies. The reason I insist on using it is because (a) it's the correct name for them and (b) the word agency conjures up an image of a recruiter acting on behalf of the contractor - they don't - they only act on behalf of the client who pays them. So what, you may ask. It's important because so many contractors get into a mindset of dealing with reputable recruiters and tend to use the language of pseudo employees like 'they found me a job.' They did no such thing - they sourced you for a role on behalf of their client - a very different thing indeed.

Welcome back Denny.

[thunderlizard]

You're under no obligation to the agent. Your relationship with the client existed before his. There's no question of shafting.

And I reckon it's infinitely better to write the contract with the client yourself rather than have an agent in the middle. Agency contracts will always shoehorn you into a very particular way of working and billing, and it's rarely in your interests.

[Denny]

Denny ... just for the slow people in the room: Can you tell me what EB stands for ?

E.... Bastard ?

A.

Employment Business. That's what they are called, not agencies. The reason I insist on using it is because (a) it's the correct name for them and (b) the word agency conjures up an image of a recruiter acting on behalf of the contractor - they don't - they only act on behalf of the client who pays them. So what, you may ask. It's important because so many contractors get into a mindset of dealing with reputable recruiters and tend to use the language of pseudo employees like 'they found me a job.' They did no such thing - they sourced you for a role on behalf of their client - a very different thing indeed.

[MikeP]

They're not 'Agents', they're an Employment Business

[Angela_D]

Denny ... just for the slow people in the room: Can you tell me what EB stands for ?

E.... Bastard ?

A.

[Denny]

A mate contacted me a few months ago about a contract at the company he worked for and I sent my CV but my availability didn't match with what they were after.

I'm now up for renewal so activated my CV yesterday and today got a phone call from an agent telling me about a position he had and he named the company....suprise suprise it's the same role my mate contacted me about and they have not filled to role yet! I didn't let on and he said he would send through the job spec and if I liked it he would send through my CV.

So I ring my mate and it looks like I might get an interview direct now. My view is that if the agent rings me again I'll say I'm not interested any more but is he likely to ever find out and even if he does should I give a toss as it's his own fault for telling me who the contract was with.

Morally you're on safe ground.

You found the role from your friend not from the EB and found it wasn't available to you at the time. So what if the EB contacts you about the same role and the company now do want to interview you. Did they sell your services to them better than you did, did they magically rework your CV to make you more saleable? No. If that had happened, the client would have invited you to interview via the EB only.

Facts are this: you found the role of your own accord, it was the client who wanted to contact you direct because you had already introduced yourself to them. So why does the EB have a claim on your service provision for the same role later on? They don't. They get paid when they introduce you to a client for the first time not for inadvertently reminding you that the same role you introduced yourself to is now available.

If the same role was still unavailable but you were offered another with the EB with the same company, but you still tried to go direct and succeeded, then morally you would be on rockier ground. As it is, you are perfectly correct to take advantage of the situation the EB landed you (and themselves by forfeiting themselves a sales fee) in.

Let's face it, so many EBs try to snatch client contacts off you without paying you for them by lying about roles available and asking for references for phoney roles, so are they really any better?

[ratewhore]

I much prefer the direct contract. All you need is the correct insurance (available for less than a grand plus a set of t's and c's and you're away...

[Mordac]

Fair point Mordac about supplying my own contract and payment terms! both something that I hadn't thought about as I've always gone via an agent before.

There are probably more pitfalls too so feel free to point them out.

All in all, you may well find it easier going through an agency. I've had a couple of direct contracts, and I've put them through an agency I know and trust at cost plus a couple of beers. Unless you're an experienced and seasoned contractor, direct contracts can end up being more trouble than they're worth. You also need to bear in mind you will have to be insured up to the hilt, because you've got no agency contract to hide behind.

[expat]

Whats all this wishy washy nonsense?

You were in contact with the client before the agent contacted you. Therefore the agent did not introduce you to said client. Therefore agent has no leg to stand on.

Put it this way: if you had already been in contact with this prospective client for exactly this prospective contract through this agent, and then some other agent came through with the contract, would this first agent feel justified in claiming prior contact? If so, then he should have no beef with you doing likewise.

[ratewhore]

Whats all this wishy washy nonsense?

You were in contact with the client before the agent contacted you. Therefore the agent did not introduce you to said client. Therefore agent has no leg to stand on.

That's all you need to know. And if agent comes knocking tell him to poke off - there's plenty more of them out there...

[MikeP]

Sorry, I was a bit unclear - I wasn't doubting your telling the truth, I meant "if you're honest" with the agent. Dunno what your conversations have been, but as I said I usually tell them sorry but I've spoken to someone from there already (doesn't need to be about the role ). Some agents can get incredibly inquisitive at this stage and it's a bit of a fine line between fishing for info and backing up your claim.

Unfortunately it's a minefield, there are always those who will refuse to mention client and sometimes others ring you up about a role and you have no idea they are one and the same. One agency on my blacklist couldn't even tell me where the job was aside from 'somewhere in the Netherlands'.

Cheers,
Mike