Reply to: Contract Extension and 'Rate Increase'

[NorthernApe]

IMHO those contractors who kick up too much of a fuss about stupid things like this get frowned upon. Pick your battles cos clients just want no hassle not contractors acting like prima donnas and continually telling everyone why they;re so special.

Not sure I understand the context of this comment. Are you aiming this at the 'line manager' thread, or my original thread re the rate issue?

[psychocandy]

Nah - I use line manager as well. The person who's responsible for the department in which I work. It's a handy term, not necessarily indicating that he tells me what to do. Except this morning when he told me to get another coffee as I looked a little

Why not use line manager? He might be line manager of the dept which includes both permies and contractors.

I've got an engineering manager. Just because I dont want to appear to be permie doesnt stop the guy being an engineering manager.

IMHO those contractors who kick up too much of a fuss about stupid things like this get frowned upon. Pick your battles cos clients just want no hassle not contractors acting like prima donnas and continually telling everyone why they;re so special.

[NorthernApe]

Agents try their best to be the middle man and play clients and contractors off against each other. Don't let them do it. What probably happened was the agent was increasing his margin and you were taking a pay cut to fund that.

Definitely not the agent. Had the rate confirmed by the client directly...

[Wanderer]

Agent calls. I've landed the contract but I was asked if I would 'be flexible on rate'. I said no as we had all agreed the rate before, and during the interview. My response was passed on to the manager who basically said it was a take-it-or-leave-it offer. After being on the bench for a period, I reluctantly agreed to the rate decrease.

Agents try their best to be the middle man and play clients and contractors off against each other. Don't let them do it. What probably happened was the agent was increasing his margin and you were taking a pay cut to fund that.

Forget all this tulip about the contract being with the agent, not directly with the client. Go and talk to the client about how much he is paying the agent, what his understanding of what your rate should be and how much margin the agent is taking.

If the client refuses to discuss it then you have to go to the agent, but it's quite possible that they will work with you to cut the agent's margin.

[Sausage Surprise]

yep i'd not sign any contract with that in, stinks all over of agent pulling fast one and taking a large cut

Yep...my thoughts too. We've all been there....

[escapeUK]

I would do what was expected but would be unlikely to pull up any trees while working there. I would also have no qualms about taking another role elsewhere at the end of the contract, when I would normally offer current client first refusal.

Or during the contract either really. Telling people you would never work for them ever again is very satisfying.

[downsouth]

WNATS

FTFY :d

To OP, my contract stipulates that I am not permitted to talk to the client about rates.

yep i'd not sign any contract with that in, stinks all over of agent pulling fast one and taking a large cut

[NorthernApe]

WNATS

To OP, my contract stipulates that I am not permitted to talk to the client about rates.

Well, I didn't have a contract at the time. The talks took place at the interview stage...

[Scrag Meister]

nah - i use line manager as well. The person who's responsible for the department in which i work. It's a handy term, not necessarily indicating that he tells me what to do. Except this morning when he told me to get him another coffee as i am his biatch

WNATS

FTFY :d

To OP, my contract stipulates that I am not permitted to talk to the client about rates.

[lukemg]

I would be less than impressed by a client that did this, even if they were dead impressed with themselves (presuming agent not being a nob). I would have dug heels in for agreed rate but depends how desperate you are !
I would do what was expected but would be unlikely to pull up any trees while working there. I would also have no qualms about taking another role elsewhere at the end of the contract, when I would normally offer current client first refusal.
So - that being said, what do you do now ? I would have made a strong effort to line up an alternative or guage the market to give some leverage. If the choice is work or bench then I would probably stay. I don't think there is any extra cash coming. If you are out of time and worried about the bench - sign-up and keep a closer eye on the market ?

[Gentile]

I am unsure how wise it would be talking to the client about rates, even if they asked during the initial interview, your contract is with the agent not the client so discussions would go through them, if they are playing silly buggers and are prepared to walk then walk.

WHS.

Whatever the hiring manager's rationale for asking, and however much you accepted that rationale at the time, I think the way that your situation has spun out as a consequence of making a decision to reveal that information proves that it's never a good idea to reveal how much you charge other people for other jobs. As Simon says (tee-hee), your contract is with the agent, and if your client wants to make sure that rate creep isn't an issue, then it's the person that he has a contract with - also the agent - that he needs to discuss that concern with.

And I'm in the camp that considers the term "line manager" to be a clear indicator of disguised employment. They're not your manager - they are a manager that works for your client, and the person you take client feedback from, but you are not one of their direct reports. It's in both your interest and your client's to remember and observe that distinction, in contractual terms as well as in working practice, unless you both like being audited.

[BolshieBastard]

I should have shown my displeasure and refused the contract TBH. It just proves that I am still learning after 20+ years in the contracting game!

Me too! Just fell between 2 stools because I didnt play the two clients offers off against each other.

[NorthernApe]

I am unsure how wise it would be talking to the client about rates, even if they asked during the initial interview, your contract is with the agent not the client so discussions would go through them, if they are playing silly buggers and are prepared to walk then walk.

It's very unwise, and I wouldn't normally do it but I accepted the explanation offered.

I hardly expected for the client to display the very behaviour that he was concerned about (in reverse of course - not me going back to the agent demanding higher rates, but him going to the agent offering a lower rate!).

[NorthernApe]

So to sum up,

you have previously worked for the same client at a higher rate,
the new role was a lower rate but client, agent and yourself were all 'happy' with the rate for the new contract
at offer, the client reduced the pre interview rate below that agreed

I can understand you wanting the job because you've been benched but, this just sounds like a classic case of client and or agent screwing you down because they knew you may be desparate for work.

Did you ask why the client wanted to reduce the agreed pre interview rate? I think you should have played hardball a little more and stood your ground. In any event, asking why they reduced their offer at renewal smacks of locking the stable door after the horse has bolted!

I did, and didn't get an answer that was acceptable to me.

Between them, the client and agent have reduced your rate and appear to have headed off any attempt for you to negotiate an increase at renewal.

This does appear to be the case...

My strategy is normally to only accept a rate Im happy with for 12 months. Unless your role changes significantly during a contract (which sometimes happen), I dont hold with this asking for a 'rise' at 3 monthly renewals but, that's just my opinion.

Normally, I never ask for a rate increase (although I have been offered a few in my contractor career) for exactly that reason. If you are happy with the rate at the start of a contract, then you should be happy at the end with the same rate. I was happy with the pre-interview offered rate, but not the actual rate.

I should have shown my displeasure and refused the contract TBH. It just proves that I am still learning after 20+ years in the contracting game!

[SimonMac]

I am unsure how wise it would be talking to the client about rates, even if they asked during the initial interview, your contract is with the agent not the client so discussions would go through them, if they are playing silly buggers and are prepared to walk then walk.