Reply to: Doing 'other' work for client

[fullyautomatix]

Go for it Psycho. Maybe offer to do it after work hours ? Around 12 midnight when a server downtime is not noticeable.

But I would love to hear back on how it went.

[psychocandy]

Cool, just thought of one more thing. Sometimes older boxes need a firmware upgrade to support larger Dimms. Manufacturers always say you should be running the latest firmware but it's worth checking as a firmware upgrade is far more likely to stuff everything than a RAM upgrade.

Good point. Thanks.

[Harmonic]

3rd party. Already checked - customer serviceable parts are ok.

Cool, just thought of one more thing. Sometimes older boxes need a firmware upgrade to support larger Dimms. Manufacturers always say you should be running the latest firmware but it's worth checking as a firmware upgrade is far more likely to stuff everything than a RAM upgrade.

[psychocandy]

Who's providing the maintenance on the V440s? It's worth checking if it's Oracle or a third party. When Oracle borged Sun they hiked support costs and so lots of companies moved to third party support. If they are on Oracle support then you should be OK to replace customer serviceable parts but if they are on third-party support then you'll need to check the T&Cs as there's nothing to stop them putting in a clause that all upgrades must be carried out by their engineers.

3rd party. Already checked - customer serviceable parts are ok.

[Harmonic]

Who's providing the maintenance on the V440s? It's worth checking if it's Oracle or a third party. When Oracle borged Sun they hiked support costs and so lots of companies moved to third party support. If they are on Oracle support then you should be OK to replace customer serviceable parts but if they are on third-party support then you'll need to check the T&Cs as there's nothing to stop them putting in a clause that all upgrades must be carried out by their engineers.

[TheFaQQer]

True enough. But theres always a risk whoever fits them no matter how small.....

Which brings it back to what kind of service can you supply if things do go wrong?

If Oracle mess up a machine, then there's a high chance that they might have other people and / or parts that can help put things right. If you mess up the machine, what can you provide to get it right?

That's why people go to the manufacturer for things - they want one big person that they can blame, knowing that they have the support team to help if things go wrong.

[psychocandy]

No I don't but then in my spanner wielding days I was qualified to work on Sun Enterprise Kit (e10K , e25K) so messing about with a few little servers wouldn't worry me....

But I would say is the biggest risks for doing this sort of stuff is:
a) Other stuff fails.
b) The new Dimms fail on fit.
c) You damage them with static discharge while fitting.
d) You damage the motherboard while fitting.

True enough. But theres always a risk whoever fits them no matter how small.....

[psychocandy]

If it's user serviceable why aren't the client doing it themselves? They must have made a risk calculation to get someone in.

You ask'd our opinion, the mass consensus is don't do it, but that's only our opinion.

Client being project manager whos non-technical which is why hes asking me for my opinion.

[SimonMac]

If it's user serviceable why aren't the client doing it themselves? They must have made a risk calculation to get someone in.

You ask'd our opinion, the mass consensus is don't do it, but that's only our opinion.

[bobspud]

Surely, if you follow this argument then you'd never touch anything. Do you take your own PC somewhere to have RAM fitted just in case?

No I don't but then in my spanner wielding days I was qualified to work on Sun Enterprise Kit (e10K , e25K) so messing about with a few little servers wouldn't worry me....

But I would say is the biggest risks for doing this sort of stuff is:
a) Other stuff fails.
b) The new Dimms fail on fit.
c) You damage them with static discharge while fitting.
d) You damage the motherboard while fitting.

[Support Monkey]

But if I fit the part myself, provided by same company who provide the support, then theres no reason, assuming they are happy and I follow procedures, that they wont be available if things go wrong.

Surely, if you follow this argument then you'd never touch anything. Do you take your own PC somewhere to have RAM fitted just in case?

Dont get me wrong, I wouldnt attempt anything I wasnt covered for. But its a bit like saying I dont want to risk putting oil in my car myself just in case it goes wrong. There are things that are meant to be done yourself and things which you need in depth knowledge to do.

On a similar note, engineer turned up here this morning to replace a CPU fan on a similar server. I declined to do this myself since it was flagged as an engineer part. Young fella turned (about 20yrs old tops!), admitted he'd never even had the lid off one of these servers (they are quite old) and admitted he'd had to look at manual to see how to do it. Not saying if he knackered it there wouldnt be a company backing him to come and fix it but thats my point.

thats what i was saying if you approach the job correctly find out if its within your level of knowledge, ask the right questions, and be prepared for the risks then there is no reason why you should not do it yourself, we all gotta start somewhere

[psychocandy]

Thats why you are a suport monkey

+1 for the "Stay away and leave the work for someone that has a dedicated parts bin or callout to replace other things that might break." approach.

But if I fit the part myself, provided by same company who provide the support, then theres no reason, assuming they are happy and I follow procedures, that they wont be available if things go wrong.

Surely, if you follow this argument then you'd never touch anything. Do you take your own PC somewhere to have RAM fitted just in case?

Dont get me wrong, I wouldnt attempt anything I wasnt covered for. But its a bit like saying I dont want to risk putting oil in my car myself just in case it goes wrong. There are things that are meant to be done yourself and things which you need in depth knowledge to do.

On a similar note, engineer turned up here this morning to replace a CPU fan on a similar server. I declined to do this myself since it was flagged as an engineer part. Young fella turned (about 20yrs old tops!), admitted he'd never even had the lid off one of these servers (they are quite old) and admitted he'd had to look at manual to see how to do it. Not saying if he knackered it there wouldnt be a company backing him to come and fix it but thats my point.

[psychocandy]

Did you miss this comment??



Just the whole attitude to risk here is also an issue let alone being skilled enough to do it properly.

As mentioned, the fact that the part is listed as USER SERVICEABLE I think make a big difference.

[psychocandy]

Assuming this is an x86 box then as long as ClientCo are using parts from the original manufacturer then the server warranty will cover the upgraded parts.
If it's a SPARC or Power box then walk away now.

One word of warning, back when I worked for a big blue server vendor I went in to do a quick RAM upgrade on the mail server for a national paper. The new Dimms blew the memory board and we had to pull a lot of strings to get a new one on the same day. It's worth checking what response time ClientCo have on their warranty and if they have weekend cover.

Its a Sun V440. The parts would be obtained from the same company who would potentially be providing the engineer.

They're also the ones providing the maintenance contract from day to day. I guess it might be wise to check that no warranty is being invalidated if I do this. I suspect the fact that the parts are labelled as USER SERVICEABLE would mean not.

[psychocandy]

This is hardly a professional attitude towards your clients business.



I am sure there are a shed load of hardward guys banging their heads on tables right now.

Why is this not professional? Saving them money....

Maybe I should have added this is listed as a user-serviceable part by Oracle. Its a memory sim upgrade. The user serviceable bit is important.

I recently declined to do a hardware fix on another machine because, even though it was easy, it was listed as a engineer fitted part.