Reply to: First contract renewal advice

[rd409]

Just to tie this thread up incase anyone is interested. I asked for £50 a day extra and the agent came back with an improved offer of a 3 month contract with £30 a day extra. Initial offer was for a 2 monther so it's nice to think I've made the agent do some work.

Got to improve on my phone lingo when dealing with the pimps though!

What you are getting is just £30 extra. Length of the contract doesnt matter. The client can ditch you after 2 months if they want. So length of the contract should never be part of the negotiation imho.

Dave.

[sharper1]

Just to tie this thread up incase anyone is interested. I asked for £50 a day extra and the agent came back with an improved offer of a 3 month contract with £30 a day extra. Initial offer was for a 2 monther so it's nice to think I've made the agent do some work.

Got to improve on my phone lingo when dealing with the pimps though!

[curtis]

I honestly dread to think what things are said to clients by agencies when you don't do what they want or even if you do but they just want for you hurry up and do things quicker so they get your bum in that seat quicker.

Unfortunately there is nothing you can do as most of the time you can't speak to the client direct.

Part of the game I suppose....I'm guilty of a white lie here and there to get a sitution on my side but I would never bad mouth anyone to get what I want.

[rd409]

What exactly does the term non-starter mean other than you obviously did not start the contract/extension?

Does it just mean they think you pulled out after agreeing to join, whether verbally or signed contract.

Yup, that's what I meant. I so wish there was a system where there was a confirmation from the end client to the contractor, and contractor to client when a deal is done. I thought I cleared up my side when I informed the client about me not accepting. The client then went to the agent to find out what was wrong with the contract, and later the agent informed the client that the differences has been sorted out, and I have accepted to sign the contract without even me know that.

That's what an agent can do to get back to you...

[jmo21]

I only knew what happened, after about a year, when I tried to apply for the same role, with same client but with different agent. The client rejected my application stating the reason as I was a non-starter. Further investigation revealed what happened, but the client would not take my word against the agent, even though the agent does not have a proof of me stating that I have accepted the contract, and I would be at client site. Even the email to the client hiring manager stating that I would not be able to accept the role at that point didn't work.

What exactly does the term non-starter mean other than you obviously did not start the contract/extension?

Does it just mean they think you pulled out after agreeing to join, whether verbally or signed contract.

[rd409]

Shirley all you had to do was ask for a copy of the signed contract which the agent never had!?

I only knew what happened, after about a year, when I tried to apply for the same role, with same client but with different agent. The client rejected my application stating the reason as I was a non-starter. Further investigation revealed what happened, but the client would not take my word against the agent, even though the agent does not have a proof of me stating that I have accepted the contract, and I would be at client site. Even the email to the client hiring manager stating that I would not be able to accept the role at that point didn't work.

[SimonMac]

I would like to comment on this bit, as I have burnt my fingers in past. I informed the client that the contract is not-agreeable, but the agent later informed the client, that I have agreed to sign the contract. The client expected me to start, and I did not knew what had happened after I declined the contract. In the end, the agent managed to put me as a "non starter" with the client.

Lesson learned a hard way for me, now I always be upfront with the agent, if I have a slightest of doubt in my mind about signing a contract. Most often, this works in your favour as in the client will want the terms changed to make it more attractive, provided they think you are important to their success that is.

Dave.


PS: Do anyone know if I can sue the agent for maligning my name for this case? I am sure, they dont have any proof of me signing a contract, or even verbally agreeing to start.

Shirley all you had to do was ask for a copy of the signed contract which the agent never had!?

[rd409]

At which point, you fail to agree a contract with the agency, and politely decline (plus tell the client that you can't agree a contract with the agency, making you look reasonable and the agency looks bad)

I would like to comment on this bit, as I have burnt my fingers in past. I informed the client that the contract is not-agreeable, but the agent later informed the client, that I have agreed to sign the contract. The client expected me to start, and I did not knew what had happened after I declined the contract. In the end, the agent managed to put me as a "non starter" with the client.

Lesson learned a hard way for me, now I always be upfront with the agent, if I have a slightest of doubt in my mind about signing a contract. Most often, this works in your favour as in the client will want the terms changed to make it more attractive, provided they think you are important to their success that is.

Dave.


PS: Do anyone know if I can sue the agent for maligning my name for this case? I am sure, they dont have any proof of me signing a contract, or even verbally agreeing to start.

[TheFaQQer]

Beyond actually signing the contract what sort of thing do you suggest might be legally construed as accepting the role? My agent is going to push me for a verbal agreement initially, would this be considered legally binding?

Yes, although it's significantly harder to prove than accepting in writing.

Ask the agent to email you a copy of the contract over, if they haven't done so already. Ignore it, and when they ring in a couple of days, tell them that it must have fallen through the spam filter and ask for it again.

When it arrives this time, explain that you need to get it checked out by a lawyer specialising in contractor law. If you really are pushed, then accept "subject to everything getting the all clear from the review" - if you actually do the review, then it will probably take a week to get done. If they keep chasing, then explain that you are chasing the lawyers, but their standard turnaround is five days.

If you still need more time, then tell the agent that the lawyers are quibbling over something - if they are, then even better, you can drag it out for a bit longer to agree the contract.

If you do it right, by the time you are ready to commit, either the client will be ready for you to start or you will have found something different to do instead. At which point, you fail to agree a contract with the agency, and politely decline (plus tell the client that you can't agree a contract with the agency, making you look reasonable and the agency looks bad)

[sharper1]

I wouldn't sign it, and would be careful that while indicating that you will sign and send it back, you do nothing which might legally be construed as accepting the role.

Beyond actually signing the contract what sort of thing do you suggest might be legally construed as accepting the role? My agent is going to push me for a verbal agreement initially, would this be considered legally binding?

[TheFaQQer]

I just want to say I've been following this thread and have found it really invaluable, the advice you guys dish out is superb.

(You could always use the rep system )

[sharper1]

I just want to say I've been following this thread and have found it really invaluable, the advice you guys dish out is superb.

I second that. Really useful for someone trying to get their head out of permie mode and into contract mode.

[SimonMac]

Firstly contracts are only as long as your notice period, its a tough way to look at it but its a reality, as you are still what most clients class as a "new contractor" (I am in the same boat even though I have been contracting over a year with a three different gigs) I would certainly (as you already have) ask for a rate rise, don't be greedy aim for £50 a day, be happy with £25 as over a two month contract that is still an extra £1000.

As for the start date, ask for a small retainer (again no harm in asking especially if the client wants you back) but as this will be a new contract as the other has finished I would keep looking incase something else comes up in the mean time, until you are on site and working again under a the new contract you can walk away at any time.

[The Spartan]

I just want to say I've been following this thread and have found it really invaluable, the advice you guys dish out is superb.

[TheFaQQer]

Well, I have begun negotiations with the agent on this contract, just waiting to see how it plays out.

A couple of other details that might have an impact on my decision in that the contract is only for 2 months and starts in February! Should I feel a little uneasy about signing this contract with a 2 or 3 weeks to go before it starts?

I don't like agreeing to work at some vague stage in the future (or even a precise point in time) when anything can happen between now and then. If the contract falls through, then you have potentially turned down other, definite work.

I wouldn't sign it, and would be careful that while indicating that you will sign and send it back, you do nothing which might legally be construed as accepting the role. Keep looking, and if else comes up before you start, then take that.