Reply to: Contracted hours

[psychocandy]

I did a twelve hour day yesterday as we were doing a release so I'm kind of out of goodwill at the moment, but as I'm on a day rate I'm not sure where it leaves me it's meant to be a 37.5 hr week but I can't say I've worked a week less than 42 hrs.

Are hourly contracts rare?

BTW. Where in Wales are you? I'll try to avoid that client !!!!!! :-)

[psychocandy]

I did a twelve hour day yesterday as we were doing a release so I'm kind of out of goodwill at the moment, but as I'm on a day rate I'm not sure where it leaves me it's meant to be a 37.5 hr week but I can't say I've worked a week less than 42 hrs.

Are hourly contracts rare?

Used to be all hourly (for my thing anyway) 10+ years ago so I was surprised coming back to contracting to see it was mostly day rates these days.

12 hour day. Hmmm. Wouldnt do that too often unless they dont mind reciprocating now and then with some short days when it suited me.

[The Spartan]

I did a twelve hour day yesterday as we were doing a release so I'm kind of out of goodwill at the moment, but as I'm on a day rate I'm not sure where it leaves me it's meant to be a 37.5 hr week but I can't say I've worked a week less than 42 hrs.

Are hourly contracts rare?

[psychocandy]

Didn't need to do weekends before, now the overall project is slipping the tasks are piling up.

The permies and Base3 chappies have been instructed to put extra hours in. A couple of the contractors have buckled under pressure and done the goodwill thing, the rest of us make sure we're compensated

They were also asking if we'd go in on Boxing Day as the testers don't celebrate Xmas so they're scared defects will mount up, and would we mind not taking Xmas week off. If they'd been a bit mature and flexible about things I'd consider it, as it is I finish next Friday until the New Year.

Exactly. Clients dont seem to realise that asking nicely and being fair goes a long way (it does with me anyway).

If someone gives me notice, sorts out that I'll get paid, doesnt act like a twat when I want to leave early one day, then I'll do my best to accomodate.

However, when they whinge that I left at 4pm (despite working till 7pm the previous 4 nights) or tells me its urgent that I'm available for Saturday work at 5-15pm on a Friday, then dont bother to get it authorised then I get pissed off!

Even more so when they make out I'm being unflexible because I say no because I've got personal commitments now (wife's a nurse and works weekend shifts sometimes so I've got the kids to look after). Even though I've told them this 10 times before about how it works and even if shes working if they give me notice I might be able to sort out a babysitter (5-15pm Friday no chance!)

Current client isnt too bad but does display some of these tendencies....

[the_rangdo]

LOL! This just proves what mongs some permie managers \ HR types are. They'd rather you work less hours, by the book etc and pay instead of some give and take where you'd deliver more and probably cheaper (if you didnt previously bill for weekends!).

Didn't need to do weekends before, now the overall project is slipping the tasks are piling up.

The permies and Base3 chappies have been instructed to put extra hours in. A couple of the contractors have buckled under pressure and done the goodwill thing, the rest of us make sure we're compensated

They were also asking if we'd go in on Boxing Day as the testers don't celebrate Xmas so they're scared defects will mount up, and would we mind not taking Xmas week off. If they'd been a bit mature and flexible about things I'd consider it, as it is I finish next Friday until the New Year.

[BolshieBastard]

+1

Current client I used to stack up enough hours to finish early (13:00) on a Friday and with an extra 2-3 hours a week in hand (goodwill, whatever)

Then they moaned that permies can't finish before 4, have to have an hour for lunch, blah blah.

So I work my 7 hours/day as per contract (generally 7:30-15:30 so it's still before 4) with very little extra 'goodwill' and weekends are invoiced (and paid)

Hasn't stopped me getting multiple extensions

LOL! This just proves what mongs some permie managers \ HR types are. They'd rather you work less hours, by the book etc and pay instead of some give and take where you'd deliver more and probably cheaper (if you didnt previously bill for weekends!).

[SussexSeagull]

I disagree - it's usually a lot easier to get the permie to do the extra hours - dangle the performance rating carrot in their face.

In June I billed 31 days - the agent did question how as there was only 30 days in the month.

I once invoiced for nine days one week!

[The Spartan]

I suppose what sector it's in as when I was in the public sector they more or less worked their hours and were gone.

[Notascooby]

I disagree - it's usually a lot easier to get the permie to do the extra hours - dangle the performance rating carrot in their face.

In June I billed 31 days - the agent did question how as there was only 30 days in the month.

[The Spartan]

Totally agree with you. But how many clients think contractors are just 'different' permies? Most I reckon. i.e. If I hassle you, it'll get done for free.

Or they could be thinking we pay a lot for this person so they can do it. It's obviously easier to try and get a contractor to do it as opposed to a permie who has the relevant rights and benefits. By that I mean they can easily go off sick or with stress or perhaps even complain to HR.

[Notascooby]

Totally agree with you. But how many clients think contractors are just 'different' permies? Most I reckon. i.e. If I hassle you, it'll get done for free.

Probably because a lot behave like permies....

[psychocandy]

Fine, then they shouldn't get extra days/hours.

I walk into a car showroom to purchase a £50k vehicle, listen to the salesman's patter then agree to buy the £50k car, for the full price of £50k.

Oh, but then I proceed to explain to the salesman that my "budget" is only £45k, but that I'd like him to still give me the car, and cover the £5k deficit himself, as a gesture of goodwill.

Guess how many times I've driven away with the car?

Totally agree with you. But how many clients think contractors are just 'different' permies? Most I reckon. i.e. If I hassle you, it'll get done for free.

[billybiro]

Thing is clients have a budget and sometimes they aint willing to pay for extra days/hours.

Fine, then they shouldn't get extra days/hours.

I walk into a car showroom to purchase a £50k vehicle, listen to the salesman's patter then agree to buy the £50k car, for the full price of £50k.

Oh, but then I proceed to explain to the salesman that my "budget" is only £45k, but that I'd like him to still give me the car, and cover the £5k deficit himself, as a gesture of goodwill.

Guess how many times I've driven away with the car?

[billybiro]

Is it for a week around go live or for the next 6 months?

When you know this you have a better idea of what is being asked of you and what your options are..

This is very often an exercise in futility. The same clients/PM's that expect additional free hours out of you are the same ones that will happily tell you that it's only required for the next 2 weeks, but then continue to expect it of you for the next 6 months.

[billybiro]

I got some spiel from him about expecting a certain amount of goodwill and team spirit.

I'd be interested to know how others have handled these kinds of situations?

What you do here is to agree to his demands, then the next day, you walk in with a fresh new contract that you've just pulled out of your backside with your rate marked up by 50%. You then present this to said permie PM and say, "I expect you to agree to this new contract that I've just made up, as a gesture of good will and team spirit". When he baulks and spits out his coffee, you gently remind him of the unpaid additional hours that he is expecting of you for the very same reason!