Reply to: What If Agency Doesn't Agree to Amend the Contract?

[Hex]

I managed to get the agency sign a variation to the original contract for the right of substitution as discussed. Also they made other small amendments to the original contract e.g. adding an end date, etc. All the changes I wanted, were made finally

25 days after the start of the contract!

Well done - and you'll be all the wiser next time.

[Dynamic]

I managed to get the agency sign a variation to the original contract for the right of substitution as discussed. Also they made other small amendments to the original contract e.g. adding an end date, etc. All the changes I wanted, were made finally

25 days after the start of the contract!

[SueEllen]

You mean the solicitor reviews the contract only or negotiates with the agency about amending it as well?

Solicitors cost a fortunate; £200 an hour for an average one!

Check your PMs.

And no they don't cost that much.

[Dynamic]

I get my contracts reviewed and I often use a solicitor.

You mean the solicitor reviews the contract only or negotiates with the agency about amending it as well?

Solicitors cost a fortunate; £200 an hour for an average one!

[SueEllen]

Still negotiating with the agency.

They said "we have worked with thousands of contractors and never used PCG contract templates as technically there is no such thing as IR35 proof our lawyers advised us! Thousands of contractors use our existing contract every day and there has never been any issue as far as I know"

"Blah blah blah bulltulip bulltulip please go away we are shysters and you are causing us trouble by trying to do things properly."

This is said while the contract has failed IR35 with a simple assessment by Qdos. The contract even didn't have an end date in it! and Qdos said what I wrote initially about the Right of Substitution that it fails too.

What percentage of contractors get their contracts reviewed against IR35?! I'm sure I shouldn't be the only one!

I get my contracts reviewed and I often use a solicitor. TAV says he roles over if a contractor does so.

[Qdos Contractor]

They said "we have worked with thousands of contractors and never used PCG contract templates as technically there is no such thing as IR35 proof our lawyers advised us! Thousands of contractors use our existing contract every day and there has never been any issue as far as I know"

That's a very standard, clueless-agency response. I'm sure they say the same thing to hundreds of contractors who have made the effort of getting their contract reviewed. Annoying.

Strictly speaking they are right in saying that there isn't such a thing as an IR35 'proof' contract - the actual working practices, which will be different for every contractor, have a massive bearing and therefore you can't judge someone's status solely from the written T&Cs.

However, there is such a thing as a 'good' IR35 contract and it's no longer acceptable for agencies to peddle out dodgy contracts without things as important as the right of substitution (unless, of course, the right doesn't exist in reality!).

[Dynamic]

Still negotiating with the agency.

They said "we have worked with thousands of contractors and never used PCG contract templates as technically there is no such thing as IR35 proof our lawyers advised us! Thousands of contractors use our existing contract every day and there has never been any issue as far as I know"

This is said while the contract has failed IR35 with a simple assessment by Qdos. The contract even didn't have an end date in it! and Qdos said what I wrote initially about the Right of Substitution that it fails too.

What percentage of contractors get their contracts reviewed against IR35?! I'm sure I shouldn't be the only one!

Tomorrow I should send them my 3rd invoice/timesheet. Should I do that? I don't want them to be paid by the client while they haven't paid me yet!

[SueEllen]

Agency gave me 2 versions of the same contract; Standard and Opt-out.

What I said was in the Opt-out version! didn't check the standard as it won't be relevant to me.

Makes no sense at all.

I only get one contract from agencies and if they are stupid enough to put opt-out all over it rather than put clauses that state if you are opted-out this clause applies, I negotiate with them pointing out that I'm opted-in by default due to already being introduced to the client.

There is absolutely no reason on your side for being opted-out. There is for the agency as if the client goes bust or doesn't pay them they don't have to pay you.

Though an agency with sense will put a clause in the contract that if the client doesn't pay them then you have to leave the client site.

Anyway all this is beside the point. You need to decide what you are going to do as the agency refuses to negotiate.

[Dynamic]

go to Qdos at least they are not in bed with Hector

The review (assessment) was done by Qdos.

[Dynamic]

Should have told the agency tough - sort out the contract first.

yeah, I know now; my mistake. it won't happen again, promise!

[Dynamic]

That's because you are opted-in.

If you are opted-in agencies can't put a restrain of trade clause on you like that.

Agency gave me 2 versions of the same contract; Standard and Opt-out.

What I said was in the Opt-out version! didn't check the standard as it won't be relevant to me.

[Pacciae]

You do get it checked but if the agency refuses to change it despite negotiating, you don't start in the hope that they will change their minds - you don't start at all.

And if you don't understand the logic, I suggest a call to Qdos or Bauer & Cottrell, they'll explain it.

go to Qdos at least they are not in bed with Hector

[Wanderer]

If you are opted-in agencies can't put a restrain of trade clause on you like that.

Well they can, but it's limited to 8 weeks from the end or 14 weeks from the start (which ever is longer).

If you are opted-in agencies can't put a restrain of trade clause on you like that. The agency contract with the client may have a clause in it preventing them for hiring you directly.

Yes, it's quite likely that the agency->client contract has some restriction and this is probably the best way for the agency to enforce the restriction. Even then, the restraint of trade on opted in workers applies to agency->client contracts in exactly the same way as agency->worker contracts.

Of course this wouldn't stop the agency trying to pull the wool over the eyes of both client and contractor by trying to enforce a restriction against one or both parties.

[psychocandy]

If the agency doesn't agree on using a PCG contract template or applying all the changes requested after a contract review by a professional. What would you do?

Walk a way - rejecting the offer? or just signing it and starting the work!

Rejecting the offer would be very difficult if it has been weeks you were looking for a contract.

difficult choice, isn't it?

On the other hand, you could argue that if they really want me to work for them, they'll be willing to change the contract or accepting the PCG contract template. considering this competitive market, they could quickly bring someone else?

If the agent is that keen for you to start you'll get the contract sent to you in minutes usually !!!!

[psychocandy]

Not sure how long you will stay out of contract with this thought? how to handle when immediate start is required?

I was offered the contract on 2nd to start on 3rd. I confirmed in email that I can start the work but only on the condition that we agree on the terms of the contract so...

The agency sent me the contract on 13th (after 10 days; so they were late themselves initially). I got it reviewed and got the result on 16th...

Should have told the agency tough - sort out the contract first.